slots

[Mello Dessi]

Hi, I introduce myself, I am a civil engineer and designer and recently I discovered this forum.
My question is about the asolate holes, which could be also trivial.
on the ntc and on the eurocode I find the size of the holes respect the nut, minimum distances from the edges....... one thing I didn't find is the size of the slotted holes, if there is a min/max between the axis of the 2 circumferences.
when captain of the asolate holes I have always put the intersection between the 2 circumferences, equal to the diameter of the hole, not knowing if this method is right and if there are precise/written rules.
Thank you who will give me an answer.

 

[jiji_akiko]

Hi dessi,
the sunshades are intended to adjust a component/plate during mating/setting, so in the practical/teoric you can also create "solate holes" with the 3000mm long die, ultimately depends on the final use of the axieme.
As for the asola diam, you can see the tables on the manuals, in the end the asola can be translated as a passing hole.

 

[ragnol]

Perhaps, but it will clarify mello, its doubt concerns the fact that the asola decreases the rigidity of the plate.

a 400x400 plate with asolate holes for 300mm (a stupid example) behaves differently one that has only ø19 holes, no?

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

when captain of the asolate holes I have always put the intersection between the 2 circumferences, equal to the diameter of the hole, not knowing if this method is right and if there are precise/written rules.

there is no rule because, as already said by @jiji_akiko, it is not possible to establish in a unique way how the asolate component should flow.
the asola could also be only a few millimeters like tens; should be evaluated case by case and possibly integrated with calculations to verify its adequacy.

 

[Mello Dessi]

of course and I think, that you can't make an asola for the whole plate.
always known that there is a fixed point (normal hole, without asola) and a hole with asola, coupled together. an example can be grilled steps, mounted on the thigh of the scale.
There are cases where there is a thermal expansion and cases that is not there.
I wanted to know if there's a rule to size a socket, or it's dimensional to "feel"
Thank you.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

of course and I think, that you can't make an asola for the whole plate.

You don't understand who you're answering.

always known that there is a fixed point (normal hole, without asola) and a hole with asola, coupled together.

almost always, but you can also make two crossed sunshades to allow recording in two directions.

I wanted to know if there's a rule to size a socket, or it's dimensional to "feel"

I think you've already been answered

 

[Mello Dessi]

You don't understand who you're answering.

almost always, but you can also make two crossed sunshades to allow recording in two directions.

I think you've already been answered

I was responding to all 2, I don't know the forum response commands well.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

an example can be grilled steps, mounted on the thigh of the scale.

the steps of the stairs are not asolate to compensate for expansions, but because you have to be able to record them without having to do honest work on the consecs, that is to put them in copy on a machine and drill them with precision, and other parts of the structure.
a dilation is measured, except for exceptional cases, in the order of the millimeters then a 10mm asola would already be oversized.
I repeat, the asola is used to record a component in cases where precise positioning cannot be guaranteed (e.g.: components mounted with variable inclinations, components mounted on non-linear structures such as a floor, components requiring a calibration at work, components requiring a periodic or occasional recording, interchangeability of components with different sizes, etc...) or in cases you want to save on excessively precise machining for the type of operation (e.g. structural scales, sensor supports, etc...)
each situation should be evaluated individually and there is no rule that defines the size of the asola length in a context or another

 

[Marco F inox]

I would like to point out that two sunbeds crossed, on the same sheet, do not allow registration in all directions, but always and only in one of the two.
to have the recording in all senses, it is necessary a horizontal axle on one sheet and vertical on the other, otherwise it is necessary to increase the diameter of one of the two holes.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

I would like to point out that two sunbeds crossed, on the same sheet, do not allow registration in all directions, but always and only in one of the two.
to have the recording in all senses, it is necessary a horizontal axle on one sheet and vertical on the other, otherwise it is necessary to increase the diameter of one of the two holes.

I misguided it for granted, mea culpa

 

[TETRASTORE]

on the ntc and on the eurocode I find the size of the holes respect the nut, minimum distances from the edges....... one thing I didn't find is the size of the slotted holes, if there is a min/max between the axis of the 2 circumferences.

the influence of the length of the asola is cited in Eurocode 3 in the "design of steel structures", in par. 6.5.2.2, p. 6-7-8 of this document, where the width of the treated surface is considered for the holes, whereas for the asolate holes the length is considered.

 

[meccanicamg]

normally the length of asola is made according to functional reasons but the eurocodece 3, thanks to the search for copilot and gpt-4 says:
Yes, there is a rule on the length of the interest of a socket used to fix bolts. the length of interest is the distance between the inner faces of the connecting plates, measured along the axis of the screw. This length must be greater or equal to the nominal diameter of the screw, increased by 4 mm for the screws class 4.6, 5.6 and 8.8, and 6 mm for the screws class 10.91. Moreover, the length of interest must not exceed the maximum value indicated in Table 3.7 of the standard uni en 1993-1-82.

nominal diameter of the screw	maximum length of interest (mm)
	cutting link
	assembly with washers
m12	40
m16	50
m20	60
m24	70
m27	80
m30	90
m36	100

these limits are established to ensure the transmission of the load between the plates and to avoid the risk of local instability of the dishes themselves. for more information on structural bolting, see the following sources:

- [Quadro normativo - Promozione Acciaio](^1^)
- [Normativa bulloni strutturali: quadro normativo e scelta degli assiemi - Wuerth](^4^)

origin: conversation with bing, 29/2/2024
(1) regulatory framework - steel promotion. https://www.promozioneacciaio.it/userfiles/file/pdf/pubblicazioni/19_bulloneria_strutturale.pdf.
(2) structural bolting - wuerth. https://www.wuerth.it/wp-st-marketi...lloneria-strutturale-0319_ultima-versione.pdf.
(3) regulatory framework - steel promotion. https://www.promozioneacciaio.it/userfiles/file/pdf/pubblicazioni/19_bulloneria_strutturale.pdf.
(4) Structural bolt regulations: regulatory framework and choice of assemblies.... instrumental bolts: bullion and choice of assemblies - würth news.
(5) ntc 2018 - chapter 4.2 - steel promotion. https://www.promozioneste.it/userfiles/pdf/publishing/ntc 2018 - deepening chapter 4_2_8.pdf.

 

[Mello Dessi]

normally the length of asola is made according to functional reasons but the eurocodece 3, thanks to the search for copilot and gpt-4 says:
Yes, there is a rule on the length of the interest of a socket used to fix bolts. the length of interest is the distance between the inner faces of the connecting plates, measured along the axis of the screw. This length must be greater or equal to the nominal diameter of the screw, increased by 4 mm for the screws class 4.6, 5.6 and 8.8, and 6 mm for the screws class 10.91. Moreover, the length of interest must not exceed the maximum value indicated in Table 3.7 of the standard uni en 1993-1-82.

nominal diameter of the screw	maximum length of interest (mm)
	cutting link
	assembly with washers
m12	40
m16	50
m20	60
m24	70
m27	80
m30	90
m36	100

these limits are established to ensure the transmission of the load between the plates and to avoid the risk of local instability of the dishes themselves. for more information on structural bolting, see the following sources:

- [Quadro normativo - Promozione Acciaio](^1^)
- [Normativa bulloni strutturali: quadro normativo e scelta degli assiemi - Wuerth](^4^)

origin: conversation with bing, 29/2/2024
(1) regulatory framework - steel promotion. https://www.promozioneacciaio.it/userfiles/file/pdf/pubblicazioni/19_bulloneria_strutturale.pdf.
(2) structural bolting - wuerth. https://www.wuerth.it/wp-st-marketi...lloneria-strutturale-0319_ultima-versione.pdf.
(3) regulatory framework - steel promotion. https://www.promozioneacciaio.it/userfiles/file/pdf/pubblicazioni/19_bulloneria_strutturale.pdf.
(4) Structural bolt regulations: regulatory framework and choice of assemblies.... instrumental bolts: bullion and choice of assemblies - würth news.
(5) ntc 2018 - chapter 4.2 - steel promotion. https://www.promozioneste.it/userfiles/pdf/publishing/ntc 2018 - deepening chapter 4_2_8.pdf.

Thank you for the answer!

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

normally the length of asola is made according to functional reasons but the eurocodece 3, thanks to the search for copilot and gpt-4 says

Yes, there is a rule on the length of the interest of a socket used to fix bolts. the length of interest is the distance between the inner faces of the connecting plates, measured along the axis of the screw

Here, I lost a good chance to silence

 

[meccanicamg]

Here, I lost a good chance to silence

and vabbeh... There are certainties that sometimes seem so logical that there is no thought that there may be a norm or provision.

 

[TETRASTORE]

normally the length of asola is made according to functional reasons but the eurocodece 3, thanks to the search for copilot and gpt-4 says:
Yes, there is a rule on the length of the interest of a socket used to fix bolts. the length of interest is the distance between the inner faces of the connecting plates, measured along the axis of the screw. This length must be greater or equal to the nominal diameter of the screw, increased by 4 mm for the screws class 4.6, 5.6 and 8.8, and 6 mm for the screws class 10.91. Moreover, the length of interest must not exceed the maximum value indicated in Table 3.7 of the standard uni en 1993-1-82.

I also tried to question copilot, gp-t4 and gave me this answer:
"in theEurocode 3, concerning design of steel structures, there is no specific standard length for a socket. However, there are some general considerations regarding the size of the connecting elements and their characteristics:
In summary, the specific length of a console will depend on the specific requirements of the project and the load conditions. It is recommended to refer to the detailed specifications of Eurocode 3 and the relevant technical standards to determine the precise size of the sunbeds according to the context of use. "
@meccanicamg, of course this is not in contradiction with the answer that has given to you as your reference to the norms one, but, according to you, is it possible that the answer is conditioned by the way in which the question is formulated?
in some cases I have already happened.

in this case the answer to the question should be reassessed @massivonweizen :- each situation should be evaluated individually and there is no rule that defines the size of the asola length in a context or in another

 

[meccanicamg]

I also tried to question copilot, gp-t4 and gave me this answer:
"in theEurocode 3, concerning design of steel structures, there is no specific standard length for a socket. However, there are some general considerations regarding the size of the connecting elements and their characteristics:
In summary, the specific length of a console will depend on the specific requirements of the project and the load conditions. It is recommended to refer to the detailed specifications of Eurocode 3 and the relevant technical standards to determine the precise size of the sunbeds according to the context of use. "
@meccanicamg, of course this is not in contradiction with the answer that has given to you as your reference to the norms one, but, according to you, is it possible that the answer is conditioned by the way in which the question is formulated?
in some cases I have already happened.

in this case the answer to the question should be reassessed @massivonweizen :- each situation should be evaluated individually and there is no rule that defines the size of the asola length in a context or in another

I confirm that in the same question content, if it is done in one way or another, the answer changes. for formulas sometimes you change formulas and completely results. you need to be very detailed and get him where we want us. I'm trying to learn how to do it. It's like educating a child. many times wrong units of measurement. but if you begin to notice it, you start to pay more attention.
go see the coil and spindle speech....or that of the gear yield and you will realize that sometimes it says wired.

I am beginning to take confidence with copilot because it is right that a new technology can also be used in our business. Of course you can't take it for good... it's worse than a fem, so first the man....poi comparison with ia.