spirit

[axa]

eye I don't want to be polemical, but when you buy a tool machine that has slightly higher orders of magnitude, can you schedule them without instruction only with the supplied manuals?
I know that this is a little different because maybe you have more machines with the same cn family, so once you have learned well or bad you are fine (maybe).
but if not so, how much would you pay a training day on a work center?
the documentation however exists as well as the basic tutorials, the problem is that it is not easy to cover all the cases that can be presented at the level of processing.
In addition, maintenance normally only guarantees updates and the possibility of reporting bugs, the "moral" assistance speech, intended as aids and advice, depends on the dealer to whom one leans.
I sell software so I am your "enemy"
It is also accurate that when a customer calls me I try to help him as far as possible.

 

[The_Matrix]

eye I don't want to be polemical, but when you buy a tool machine that has slightly higher orders of magnitude, can you schedule them without instruction only with the supplied manuals? I know that this is a little different because maybe you have more cars with the same cn family, so once you've learned well or bad you're okay (maybe).
but if not so, how much would you pay a training day on a work center?
the documentation however exists as well as the basic tutorials, the problem is that it is not easy to cover all the cases that can be presented at the level of processing.
In addition, maintenance normally only guarantees updates and the possibility of reporting bugs, the "moral" assistance speech, intended as aids and advice, depends on the dealer to whom one leans.
I sell software so I am your "enemy"
It is also accurate that when a customer calls me I try to help him as far as possible.

Well, axa,
is not so different.. .
If you have a mu and after a while buy another, different as a producer, different as a control, etc... do you think you can use it?
I don't think so.
it would be nice that everything was standard... buy something and you can use it. . .
I'm sorry. does not happen for electrical sockets, for the controls of the car, which are manufactured in millions of specimens and you want it to happen for a software produced in a few thousand?

I do not understand why there is this claim to cad/cam/cae, while a widespread product (in the order of billions of copies) like ms windows or ms office, it is born without documentation or almost, without tutorial, and it is used at 5% of their potential only because they are not documented.
Mysteries of life.
and think that with the cam/cad you produce your wealth... It should be your best interest to use them, right?
hi and good holidays

 

[axa]

Maybe you haven't read the (maybe)
good holidays to you and to all those who read.

 

[syfer]

I say mine with extreme humility, aware of being a user recently both of mu and cad/cam.

axa: I don't have any enemies I want to make them, thank God for giving me the address of these sites to ask questions to experts, workers therefore humble and well prepared to dispense the advice.

You ask me how much I would pay for a training day?
training to learn a subject should be equated to teaching and not to that of a professor specialized in cardio surgery with 30 years of experience. You can't charge me by multiplying the teacher's cost by 3, otherwise the number that comes out daily is out of the world. I asked a company in my city, in line of air will be 2 km. if they could find an agreement with me with times and modes and manage a few hours of training. I was told that the cost did not change, always 480.00€ the most iva day.
the problems you try to solve them but the deaf worst is who decides not to hear.

You tell me that esprit tutorials exist. Very well, can you give me the links? I'd be very grateful. consider that already I work the only things that I do not manage very well is to set that myriad menu that I find when I have to make a wrapped pocket, a contour, etc. the operations in (general, strategy, advanced, links, roughness, pocket) are the dark side of esprit, have not been explained well because the purpose was to require an addition to the basic training course.


the_matrix:
Why are they simple? Why are they intuitive?
windows with all its flaws and easy to use what is not a specific software. but if the producer does not try to make life easy to his user it means that he did not succeed so well in his intent.

the cam should be a "translator" from the design to the concrete. If it doesn't make my life easy from drawing to real piece, what do I need a cam?
to complicate my life?

when you work you do not have much time to lose in additional complications, it should be all simple to use, and on this nobody can say the opposite.

good holidays to you too, we will continue this pleasant chatter more tanned. ;-)

 

[RUDY MARCIANO]

"and think that with the cam/cad you produce your wealth"

Of course, for the master of the software! auton in 13 years that I have, has never given me anything, indeed, for every little bullshit makes you pay! When you decide to come back, you get paid for all the arrears. ask for more detailed explanations? Well, he tells you to take a course because by phone you can't explain much! So I wonder what the assistance is for? every year it has to show that it launches a new version, but they are taken that identical to the previous ones only change details. the other cams are later light years (there are cams that calculate the residual material in finishing) but perhaps they do not know it, are still to the residual material in roughing them......... .
and a course is not 500 euros as said before, but 900 euros (but how much do they pay at 100 euros???? ). ....not pickles. take a new cut, away another 900 euros only to give you the post processor of that cut, assistance 2000 euros a year....insomma, their luck lies on the assistance, is evident, more than on the initial cost of the software!
and anyway if you don't know, the windows handbooks give you free, just go to their site or at least in the question point explains you in detail not mysteriously as auton!

carissimo axa, better informed, if you take a cut of 300,000 euros the course make you free the building house, at least it has the common sense, what is missing in auton.

conclusion auton would not even recommend it to my worst enemy!

 

[axa]

carissimo axa, better informed, if you take a cut of 300,000 euros the course make you free the building house, at least it has the common sense, what is missing in auton.

I'm sorry, but I felt like I asked you as a question, not as a statement.
In fact, now that you explained it to me, I understand that with 300k probably the training can "give it".

 

[The_Matrix]

the_matrix:
Why are they simple? Why are they intuitive?
windows with all its flaws and easy to use what is not a specific software. but if the producer does not try to make life easy to his user it means that he did not succeed so well in his intent.

the cam should be a "translator" from the design to the concrete. If it doesn't make my life easy from drawing to real piece, what do I need a cam?
to complicate my life?

when you work you do not have much time to lose in additional complications, it should be all simple to use, and on this nobody can say the opposite.

good holidays to you too, we will continue this pleasant chatter more tanned. ;-)

I like your point of view. .
tell me what's simple in windows or excel.
Can you do a report table without problems?
Can you make a macro in vb using the online guide?
Can you color a cell of a color depending on the value of the neighboring cell? Tell me how to do it or where to find the information?
Can you make a pivot table that doesn't resize as references to the data base's change?
... and we talk about the programs + spread to the world, made by software house + great in the world.
and on windows...
You want to tell me that you can easily get your hands on the logs?
or are you able to understand and correct the fact that it becomes slow? Yeah? How do you do that?
I think you're a little fantasized about the software world... I think... free to think it as you want

 

[The_Matrix]

"and think that with the cam/cad you produce your wealth"

Of course, for the master of the software! auton in 13 years that I have, has never given me anything, indeed, for every little bullshit makes you pay! When you decide to come back, you get paid for all the arrears. ask for more detailed explanations? Well, he tells you to take a course because by phone you can't explain much! So I wonder what the assistance is for? every year it has to show that it launches a new version, but they are taken that identical to the previous ones only change details. the other cams are later light years (there are cams that calculate the residual material in finishing) but perhaps they do not know it, are still to the residual material in roughing them......... .
and a course is not 500 euros as said before, but 900 euros (but how much do they pay at 100 euros???? ). ....not pickles. take a new cut, away another 900 euros only to give you the post processor of that cut, assistance 2000 euros a year....insomma, their luck lies on the assistance, is evident, more than on the initial cost of the software!
and anyway if you don't know, the windows handbooks give you free, just go to their site or at least in the question point explains you in detail not mysteriously as auton!

carissimo axa, better informed, if you take a cut of 300,000 euros the course make you free the building house, at least it has the common sense, what is missing in auton.

conclusion auton would not even recommend it to my worst enemy!

I don't work for auton.
But I don't understand why they should give you something. What presents? If I come to you, I'll get you a job, then the next two will give me them?
so it works? I don't understand.
or do you think auton employees are not paid?
about 500/900€ per day: 500€ you pay them to the consultant who comes to you and takes a course... 900€ to the software house that is presumed to offer you + professionalism.
on windows: try to answer the questions I asked syfer... using "?" or microsoft site.
I repeat, I don't work in auton... In fact.

 

[RUDY MARCIANO]

I don't work for auton.
But I don't understand why they should give you something. What presents? If I come to you, I'll get you a job, then the next two will give me them?
so it works? I don't understand.
or do you think auton employees are not paid?
about 500/900€ per day: 500€ you pay them to the consultant who comes to you and takes a course... 900€ to the software house that is presumed to offer you + professionalism.
on windows: try to answer the questions I asked syfer... using "?" or microsoft site.
I repeat, I don't work in auton... In fact.

I do not claim that they give me anything, I simply demand that they give me what I pay! If I take a bmw it's not that they don't give me the instruction book, they give me it. If I have a problem and I call them is not that bmw makes me pay!
quote my job, well I don't give the other 2 jobs but on molds from 100,000 euros I have payments of a year.....and also from order is 90 to be blessed......only that in the end 2 months to have the blessing, then move the payments.....I to auton again the day I always paid them!!! ! ! !

 

[The_Matrix]

I do not claim that they give me anything, I simply demand that they give me what I pay! If I take a bmw it's not that they don't give me the instruction book, they give me it. If I have a problem and I call them is not that bmw makes me pay!
quote my job, well I don't give the other 2 jobs but on molds from 100,000 euros I have payments of a year.....and also from order is 90 to be blessed......only that in the end 2 months to have the blessing, then move the payments.....I to auton again the day I always paid them!!! ! ! !

if you have a bmw they give you the booklet use... per la maintenance... well, if you can change the oil yourself with their instructions, you're good... ah, la maintenance among other things you can do it only from them (at their costs and their conditions), since otherwise they do not reset the counter (I am quite experienced, since I have a gs and I just finished renting a 320d xdrive touring future).
If you have a problem, go to them, make an appointment, take it (pay the replacement car...) and I want to see the face you do when you withdraw it and see the account.
When I had a legal problem and I called the lawyer... After a minute I talked, he said, "If you want to talk, just call a call center... if you want a telephone consultation are 300€ per hour, minimum payment 1 hour".
If you make you pay for 1 year, I'm sorry if I tell you, but the one out of place is you: you probably have no alternative to doing so, I don't argue, but to think that everyone should align to your method seems a little like this, let's say. . .
then, if you think other software providers are better than auton as availability, courtesy, etc... I think there are no big problems changing, right? still a cam that is the last ring of the chain and you do not have "historical" or from to recover (or at least, the problematic is not critical as a cad). sincerely you could also find yourself working better than with auton... but as assistance policies I think there are no great differences.
definitely with a cam + "live" the new releases would not be a makeup of the previous one, but they would contain novelties that would justify the canon.

 

[RUDY MARCIANO]

if you have a bmw they give you the booklet use... per la maintenance... well, if you can change the oil yourself with their instructions, you're good... ah, la maintenance among other things you can do it only from them (at their costs and their conditions), since otherwise they do not reset the counter (I am quite experienced, since I have a gs and I just finished renting a 320d xdrive touring future).
If you have a problem, go to them, make an appointment, take it (pay the replacement car...) and I want to see the face you do when you withdraw it and see the account.
When I had a legal problem and I called the lawyer... After a minute I talked, he said, "If you want to talk, just call a call center... if you want a telephone consultation are 300€ per hour, minimum payment 1 hour".
If you make you pay for 1 year, I'm sorry if I tell you, but the one out of place is you: you probably have no alternative to doing so, I don't argue, but to think that everyone should align to your method seems a little like this, let's say. . .
then, if you think other software providers are better than auton as availability, courtesy, etc... I think there are no big problems changing, right? still a cam that is the last ring of the chain and you do not have "historical" or from to recover (or at least, the problematic is not critical as a cad). sincerely you could also find yourself working better than with auton... but as assistance policies I think there are no great differences.
definitely with a cam + "live" the new releases would not be a makeup of the previous one, but they would contain novelties that would justify the canon.

but in fact we ask the book "use" to auton, not maintenance! anything in the world that you buy has a book of use, for auton no, you buy and not to the manuals of nothing, you have the cd and the key, stop, for the rest you pay everything! in fact I after 13 years cut auton assistance immediately, and indeed, if someone asks me the gift also the cd and post processor, come to me to sue auton, I paid everything they gave me, if I want to give it to whom I want, I can do it very well!
That said the payment speech was an example to explain to you that it is not us who make fortunes, but others! you take an average molder, invested hundreds of millions of old liras to take cutting edge cutters, for decent cutters go minimal from a 150,000 euros up, so we find ourselves with (among sheds, cutters, software, etc.) an investment of some million euros, and if we work at 30 euros per hour they give us crazy. they come to make a course, with the only investment they have are a pc a company car and an office, and they demand 50 euros per hour?it seems normal?

 

[The_Matrix]

but in fact we ask the book "use" to auton, not maintenance! anything in the world that you buy has a book of use, for auton no, you buy and not to the manuals of nothing, you have the cd and the key, stop, for the rest you pay everything! in fact I after 13 years cut auton assistance immediately, and indeed, if someone asks me the gift also the cd and post processor, come to me to sue auton, I paid everything they gave me, if I want to give it to whom I want, I can do it very well!
That said the payment speech was an example to explain to you that it is not us who make fortunes, but others! you take an average molder, invested hundreds of millions of old liras to take cutting edge cutters, for decent cutters go minimal from a 150,000 euros up, so we find ourselves with (among sheds, cutters, software, etc.) an investment of some million euros, and if we work at 30 euros per hour they give us crazy. they come to make a course, with the only investment they have are a pc a company car and an office, and they demand 50 euros per hour?it seems normal?

behind the development of a software there are hundreds or thousands of people. There's not just what's coming for you.
50 euros per hour is very little for a specialist training. I guarantee you.
Maybe it's time for you to change software.
I think you're tired of both the product and the company.
At least, that's what it is.
hi and good work

 

[syfer]

Maybe it's just an impression, but I think you're a little bit too part of it. however yes, I can easily
to distract me with considerable ease in windows environment.
I used it very little and only for teaching, I never needed to deepen.
I'd be fantasized if I didn't have a cam I have to work with.

I remain of the opinion that if there were and there is no manual to learn esprit, the game
It would end, as well as tutorials.

 

[syfer]

if you have a bmw they give you the booklet use... per la maintenance... well, if you can change the oil yourself with their instructions, you're good... ah, la maintenance among other things you can do it only from them (at their costs and their conditions), since otherwise they do not reset the counter (I am quite experienced, since I have a gs and I just finished renting a 320d xdrive touring future).
If you have a problem, go to them, make an appointment, take it (pay the replacement car...) and I want to see the face you do when you withdraw it and see the account.
When I had a legal problem and I called the lawyer... After a minute I talked, he said, "If you want to talk, just call a call center... if you want a telephone consultation are 300€ per hour, minimum payment 1 hour".
If you make you pay for 1 year, I'm sorry if I tell you, but the one out of place is you: you probably have no alternative to doing so, I don't argue, but to think that everyone should align to your method seems a little like this, let's say. . .
then, if you think other software providers are better than auton as availability, courtesy, etc... I think there are no big problems changing, right? still a cam that is the last ring of the chain and you do not have "historical" or from to recover (or at least, the problematic is not critical as a cad). sincerely you could also find yourself working better than with auton... but as assistance policies I think there are no great differences.


definitely with a cam + "live" the new releases would not be a makeup of the previous one, but they would contain novelties that would justify the canon.

If my lawyer took me 300€. for a telephone consultation I will pass before I finish the call.
If the prices of your lawyers are these, I suggest you take a trip, you will definitely save a lot.

I would have very gladly changed the cam seen the support I received, but I do not want to throw the money of the purchase, for now I hold it, but you are sure that of money to me will shake a few from now on.
However in all this saying remains the fact that a link for manuals, tutorials, ... do not jump out. ;-)

 

[syfer]

but in fact we ask the book "use" to auton, not maintenance! anything in the world that you buy has a book of use, for auton no, you buy and not to the manuals of nothing, you have the cd and the key, stop, for the rest you pay everything! in fact I after 13 years cut auton assistance immediately, and indeed, if someone asks me the gift also the cd and post processor, come to me to sue auton, I paid everything they gave me, if I want to give it to whom I want, I can do it very well!
That said the payment speech was an example to explain to you that it is not us who make fortunes, but others! you take an average molder, invested hundreds of millions of old liras to take cutting edge cutters, for decent cutters go minimal from a 150,000 euros up, so we find ourselves with (among sheds, cutters, software, etc.) an investment of some million euros, and if we work at 30 euros per hour they give us crazy. they come to make a course, with the only investment they have are a pc a company car and an office, and they demand 50 euros per hour?it seems normal?

No, it's not normal! and in fact they arm themselves behind all these costs with smoke and very little roast.
to try again of this are not found manuals, directions, references, when you ask by phone are vague to send them to that country so much they recite a part. I wonder if they're not ashamed.
and regarding the courses are rightly to pay we would miss, but I would like you to attend the course, chew terms with such speed that you should understand on the flight as if you invented esprit. I'm out of my mind.

 

[RUDY MARCIANO]

behind the development of a software there are hundreds or thousands of people. There's not just what's coming for you.
50 euros per hour is very little for a specialist training. I guarantee you.
Maybe it's time for you to change software.
I think you're tired of both the product and the company.
At least, that's what it is.
hi and good work

we also have behind specialized people. cmq yes, now it has made me go patience under auton heels, for now I go ahead without assistance, I will serve in the future another new cam surely I do not address myself to auton. and of examples I made auton, I can make of other kind pro-e, etc..... all programs that I paid a bang and then they turned out only leeches and their bragged superiority with time has brought them back to me if not last,

Good job!

 

[The_Matrix]

Rudy, syfer,
I believe (use conditional only because I do not personally know auton) that a product non can be sold without manuals (on-line, by now) of use.... That sounds really weird. . .
Of course one could question the quality of the same.
training manuals are different... we also provide them only after training and not all.
If to save your training you do it from the first you happen obviously you can not ask me to provide you with educational support (free of course). on this I hope you agree.
I care a lot for example about the quality of training that my people provide... I don't care about the training anymore (unfortunately, because I really like to give my experience) but I care about the fact that those who give training you eroghi with the quality that the customer expects and if the customer complains (with reason of course), no problem to repeat the training (after having dicked my consultant).

Good job, guys!
... I'm going to vacation, the real ones.

 

[RUDY MARCIANO]

Rudy, syfer,
I believe (use conditional only because I do not personally know auton) that a product non can be sold without manuals (on-line, by now) of use.... That sounds really weird. . .
Of course one could question the quality of the same.
training manuals are different... we also provide them only after training and not all.
If to save your training you do it from the first you happen obviously you can not ask me to provide you with educational support (free of course). on this I hope you agree.
I care a lot for example about the quality of training that my people provide... I don't care about the training anymore (unfortunately, because I really like to give my experience) but I care about the fact that those who give training you eroghi with the quality that the customer expects and if the customer complains (with reason of course), no problem to repeat the training (after having dicked my consultant).

Good job, guys!
... I'm going to vacation, the real ones.

the matrix I confirm, I rechecked, I have nothing. I have the key, the first cd (the following downloaded on their site), the contract and password and login for their site, stop. there is no manual. but this is not only for auton, even with pro-and I do not have the manual. my worker had done a course with pro-e and I therefore have a manual of the course (I think what you call training), but the manual of the pro-e program and auton do not exist. and as I believe everyone will confirm it and there is no way, neither on their site nor to ask it. And yet of software I have others, and with them the manual exists......... you see we caught the "stronzi" in turn. cmq if I can break a spear for auton its strength was simplicity, and the collision control that was one of the first to do so, for the rest, especially since it went in hand to espirit went in behind rolls.
then good holidays and have fun for us too!;-)

 

[syfer]

hi matrix, a pity that this discussion has exhausted without proposing answers, would have made it convenient for those, like me, looking for it without ever finding it.
a question I would like to ask you: Can you give me some links to download a manual or tutorial about esprit? Hello and thank you.

 

[The_Matrix]

Unfortunately I don't know esprit... even if there is an ex-connect.
is the problem of using uncommon software... There is little material. . .
If for example go to youtube and look for stuff on nx, you'll be amazed... (val for nx, but also for other cads going for the major)