PIETRO2002
Guest
If you put the photo of a stainless steel die casting machine I pay you a beer.. Two!
PIETRO2002
Guest
the siren are covered with refractory material. . .
Fulvio Romano
Guest
I do not understand the reason for this attitude so polemical and aggressive. If you're having trouble, will you please go out of here?
where would I have written that there are stainless steel die casting machines? I talked about casting machines working at 1800°C and are made of copper. What do you have to challenge me so arrogant?
Ingotiate. I wrote ingots, don't siviere, can you read? Are you done ridiculing yourself or do you want to continue?
PIETRO2002
Guest
Excuse me if I bumped your sensitivity!
Vittorio
Guest
Sure. but the ingot should not resist corrosion and therefore precision.. as a mold
what I wanted to emphasize. . that you can also build a steel mold to print stainless steel.. but you will never be able to produce 2000 pieces. because the mold will undergo unacceptable transformations
So how do you say... the costs do not justify the execution of a mould for stainless steel.
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PIETRO2002
Guest
Can someone tell me why you can't get a piece of die casting as it can be for a light alloy? Are there only economic limits or temperatures or pressures necessary for molding? My is not a provocation. I would like to lay a gap to my ignorance!
Vittorio
Guest
I think I answered your question. with the message I wrote to Roman lightning.
Aluminium melts at 600/700 °, the steel used for the construction of the mould is a hot steel which is tempered at 47 hrc and also undergoes special treatments of surface hardening to reduce corrosion stress due to the flow of molten metal.
with a similar mold.. in the automotive sector you can produce 150 thousand printed.
Keep in mind that the solidification times of aluminium are certainly not equal to those of steel. .
so at every stroke you should wait for an eternity to open the mold and extract the piece.
and therefore increase production costs.
Now. considering that steel melts at about 1350°... that mold that costs hundreds of thousands of euros.. after a few prints is ready to be thrown.
Aluminium melts at 600/700 °, the steel used for the construction of the mould is a hot steel which is tempered at 47 hrc and also undergoes special treatments of surface hardening to reduce corrosion stress due to the flow of molten metal.
with a similar mold.. in the automotive sector you can produce 150 thousand printed.
Keep in mind that the solidification times of aluminium are certainly not equal to those of steel. .
so at every stroke you should wait for an eternity to open the mold and extract the piece.
and therefore increase production costs.
Now. considering that steel melts at about 1350°... that mold that costs hundreds of thousands of euros.. after a few prints is ready to be thrown.
PIETRO2002
Guest
Thank you victorious, so we exclude that to obtain the particular you can proceed with die casting? What's left? lost wax casting? Melting on the ground?... hot stamping?
Vittorio
Guest
if you have to do it by force in stainless steel.. there is no alternative that melt in lost wax or on earth and then mechanical finishing.
lost wax is precise but on large details precision decays and aesthetic appearance is not the best.
hot stamping, on that geometry, is not feasible and then has a coarse precision.
if instead there is the possibility to execute it in zama or aluminum:
So: considering the complexity of the detail of the post #4 image, considering the number of 2000 pieces year, and here I would like to pause for a moment, because if the 2000 pieces per year are printed all on 1 January is an account.. but if they are printed 50 in a month and then another 50 after two months.. cost changes radically.
I would exclude cnc processing because 2000pz are too many and the piece, for what we were allowed to see, is complex, for example the interior is not known as it is.
I'll conclude before I get bored.
I am unable to give my opinion.
1st you do not know what it is for if it were to go on Tuesday.. I think we can also make stainless steel with a mold to throw after 2 printed.
You don't know if you can change your shape and lower your costs.
3rd was however a pleasure to share questions and opinions
lost wax is precise but on large details precision decays and aesthetic appearance is not the best.
hot stamping, on that geometry, is not feasible and then has a coarse precision.
if instead there is the possibility to execute it in zama or aluminum:
So: considering the complexity of the detail of the post #4 image, considering the number of 2000 pieces year, and here I would like to pause for a moment, because if the 2000 pieces per year are printed all on 1 January is an account.. but if they are printed 50 in a month and then another 50 after two months.. cost changes radically.
I would exclude cnc processing because 2000pz are too many and the piece, for what we were allowed to see, is complex, for example the interior is not known as it is.
I'll conclude before I get bored.
I am unable to give my opinion.
1st you do not know what it is for if it were to go on Tuesday.. I think we can also make stainless steel with a mold to throw after 2 printed.
You don't know if you can change your shape and lower your costs.
3rd was however a pleasure to share questions and opinions
MassiVonWeizen
Guest
Excuse me if I interfere, but returning to the core of the question
and the subsequent clarifications of giacomo
I would say that, given the non-relevance, which has been asserted by Jacob, we must produce a box o una controlled, the answer is basically a... no alternative to lost wax.
Vittorio
Guest
Yes, I also think that the road is lost wax casting. I stretched out with the first message to answer pietro2002
PIETRO2002
Guest
thank you victorious, you wax lost, even if maybe we even lost patience! :
Giacomo Lepore
Guest
the quantity can be fractionated in any size of batch that can be considered economical.
I did not understand why frazionarlo lowers the price. for mold wear? shifts?
I tried. we have always worked with lost wax. This time we've always done it like this, he has his own because
.Thank you very much for the analysis.
Vittorio
Guest
I tried. we have always worked with lost wax. This time we've always done it like this, he has his own because
Thank you very much for the analysis.
what it means "go back we have always That's what it's like. ?Vittorio
Guest
It does not lower the price but raises it because of the cost of machine equipment.
cacciatorino
Guest
It is an ironic way to say that sometimes the usual are a brake on innovation, but not in this case because the proposed alternative is not viable and the usual have their solid technological motivation.
Vittorio
Guest
will also be ironic... but Italian has its rules
Giacomo Lepore
Guest
Thanks hunter, yes, that's what I meant.
very often it is said that "we have always done so" is the death of innovation, that people must think "out of the box" and that they must always work on the margins of the comfort zone.
all true stuff, motivational thrust, but then you end up at the extreme opposite. you end up wanting to always start from the white sheet, clear all the previous experience and question for the taste of questioning.
But it's not my case. my, as announced at the beginning, is for pure and simple ignorance of the molding processes.
I am a poor mechanic, not mastic Italian especially well, I admit it.will also be ironic... but Italian has its rules
but a phrase of the type:
- This time. <concetto> has his own because -
should be clear and semantically consistent.
now replace <concetto> with <l'abbiamo così="" fatto="" sempre=""> and the semantic structure, although grammatically nested, should maintain its consistency. Maybe I'm wrong, huh?
:</l'abbiamo></concetto></concetto>
Vittorio
Guest
"questa volta" is discordant with "Sempre" and I don't know you so well to interpret your irony
wert
Guest
I believe that one of the best chances to get a detail like the one posted is to get it by molding. I made a hot stamping gear and subsequent cold minting and there was no need for any processing on the teeth; the material is 38mnvs6. It is clear that it is a gear that turns at very low speed and that can afford a certain game of ingration, but the mechanical characteristics had to guarantee a certain resistance of the tooth. I think there shouldn't be any problem processing stainless steel too. if that is a carter, I imagine that the opposite face to that of the photo has a seal surface; that of course should be worked, as well as any bearing seats or other jobs where tolerances are under class c of 22768.