steel "hard"

[Fulvio Romano]

Good morning.
I have a piece, a tube, about a metre and a half, made in s235jr. the problem is that if you bump, you always bend and then you no longer enter where you should. we say that you can bend even a couple of centimeters (plastic arrow of the free extreme, other extreme framed).
I have to prevent it from deforming so much, but I can't increase the diameter. I would like to try to make it of a harder steel, but it is weldable. the piece undergoes a thermal stress 0°c - 200°c every couple of minutes. It's a consumable piece, so I don't want such expensive materials or difficult to find.

I had thought of doing in c40 / s355, which should be more "hard". Are there any other materials I could consider? something, for example, that has almost fragile behaviour and therefore has a practically ridiculous break-up extension?

I would like someone to make a short list of steels that come to mind with its r, y and % values. I would be so grateful that I could even repay somehow... I still don't think of it as...

 

[MBT]

fulvio
as you have rightly said, the fact that it remains bent means that during the shock its internal tension exceeded that of yielding (in your case, 235 n/mm2)
Now, if the stress is that and you cannot change the only alternative is to use a steel that has a higher yield limit (of course, no... )
How much? Well, it depends! You should somehow calculate what is the internal tension that generates a deformation of this type.
s355, as you mentioned it, could be enough. personally, since you also have a thermal stress, I would be oriented to the steels for boilers and pressure vessels, easily available and from the total cost contained. p355gh en 10028 could do to your case and it is easily weldable.
C40's not good. I have doubts that it is in tube (in round yes, in tube I believe not) and however it is not easily weldable
if you want tables with the values of r, y, and extensions... I'll get you something on Monday.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

as you have rightly said, the fact that it remains bent means that during the shock its internal tension exceeded that of yielding (in your case, 235 n/mm2)
Now, if the stress is that and you cannot change the only alternative is to use a steel that has a higher yield limit (of course, no... )
How much? Well, it depends! You should somehow calculate what is the internal tension that generates a deformation of this type.

Right. I was going to nose, but you're right, Monday, I put the tip of the pencil on the sheet and see what goes out.

C40's not good. I have doubts that it is in tube (in round yes, in tube I believe not) and however it is not easily weldable[cut]s355, as you mentioned it, could be enough. personally, since you also have a thermal stress, I would be oriented to the steels for boilers and pressure vessels, easily available and from the total cost contained. p355gh en 10028 could do to your case and it is easily weldable.

See? This is the information I need... I'm a robot. only the cast iron I know... :

if you want tables with the values of r, y, and extensions... I'll get you something Monday

You'd be a friend. .

 

[maxopus]

hi fulvio, if the s355 is not enough, try to take a look at the microalloy altoresistential steels – en10268:2006
have a very high yield resistance.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

I'll get you this brochure. seems to me an interesting material

 

[MBT]

if I can add a comment. . .
fulvio spoke of "consumables". by experience, in the field in which he works, "consumable" means that if his cost is greater than 1€/kg the customer already shatters his nose....
weldox and weldox do their work to the great, but they cost.

 

[Enigma]

I guess taking into consideration a "impax-supreme" of the "uddeholm" is too expensive for your application... right?? ? (http://www.uddeholm.com/files/pb_impax_supreme_english.pdf)

enigma

 

[Fulvio Romano]

hi fulvio, if the s355 is not enough, try to take a look at the microalloy altoresistential steels – en10268:2006
have a very high yield resistance.

if I can add a comment. . .
fulvio spoke of "consumables". by experience, in the field in which he works, "consumable" means that if his cost is greater than 1€/kg the customer already shatters his nose....
weldox and weldox do their work to the great, but they cost.

Yes, yes.
I thank you for the links, so what are the supportive steels, but the point is another.
I have to answer questions like, "is it weldable by the thirteen-year-old neo-assum?", "I find it from the cold meat shop?", "Is it available to us in stock?", "I can guarantee rapid repercussions all over the world, including india, cynasty, Uzbekistan, etc.?", "is it ridiculous? ".

This is all information that I don't find on datasheets, and that's the information I was asking who used it. it is not a question of finding a nice name to write about the design, but a material sufficiently durable, and that it is not "replaced". if the customer calls me and tells me "we split them all, how much do you put us to deliver a new batch of spare parts?", and I put more than three minutes on the phone to answer them, the customer has already built the piece of the first steel to the rubber that finds in stock (if in wool, often also radioactive), taken to hammer to make it as straight as possible, tight with the mazzola because a threaded meter

Here... I have to protect myself from these amenities. . .

 

[rinato]

Excuse me if I interfere as an amateur. but to explain to the customer that some good steel in the machine should put it is really impossible?
It should be understood that changing 1 element per day made of "ferro" is better than a piece every three or four made of "steel". you can always agree to immediately supply him with a spare pallet, and on the last layer of pieces a nice red sign with "say to the warehouse to call fulvio instead of poisoning to the filter coffee machine".
savings make sense until they become counterproductive: 'Are't people even calculating machine stops? we have a customer who is doing an equipment equal to the first that we have already delivered to him because he can not afford the stop-chain (ok that is a job of a few thousand euros, but to him anyway it is convenient).
and then it is not said that Chinese steel is poor only because radioactive;-)
then, for charity, we also ask miracles, but when we settle them most often we would have done better to refuse the commission.. .

 

[maxopus]

Excuse me if I interfere as an amateur. but to explain to the customer that some good steel in the machine should put it is really impossible?
It should be understood that changing 1 element per day made of "ferro" is better than a piece every three or four made of "steel". you can always agree to immediately supply him with a spare pallet, and on the last layer of pieces a nice red sign with "say to the warehouse to call fulvio instead of poisoning to the filter coffee machine".
savings make sense until they become counterproductive: 'Are't people even calculating machine stops? we have a customer who is doing an equipment equal to the first that we have already delivered to him because he can not afford the stop-chain (ok that is a job of a few thousand euros, but to him anyway it is convenient).
and then it is not said that Chinese steel is poor only because radioactive;-)
then, for charity, we also ask miracles, but when we settle them most often we would have done better to refuse the commission.. .

I agree, also because a high-strength steel is not a nanoceramic or a titanium alloy. Maybe it will cost 2 euros per kg but it has a yield point 3 times higher than a s235. Anyway you know what they say, stick the puppy where the master wants, so I take refuge in my retire buen.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

Yes, what you say does not bend, but it is a mentality far too widespread in my field. It is not a question of cost, but of philosophy. If I made them pay ten times so much, probably no one would beat the lion.
If I have a piece of welded pipe, anyone passing there thinks "so do it myself." and if I say to him "look, it is not so simple, if you bend half a centimeter because it hits somewhere, then the system does not hit what it has to center", the answer is: "if, if, if, the usual professor with white collar. Look, I've been working in the shop since I was 13 years old, you want to see that I'll do it again in the time of a coffee and it works the same?" At that point it's over, now the guy's gone for the bribe and has to prove he's better than you. Go back to the cafeteria that you don't tell with the piece, mount it, the car works and you're the moron who said it was complicated. the next day comes the official non-compliance of the machine and the failure to pay the progress states, because the tool no longer enters the automatic loading system, so there is a problem with the automation that lost the stored positions.

If then I give him a pallet with a thousand thousand pieces of ergal loaded with crypttonite, the answer would be: "ah... and then when I finish them, I have to buy them back from you? My workshop doesn't work cryptonite. I have given you a thousand thousand" - "and then it means that in your experience they break often. they are probably poorly designed!"

Ultimately, if I could do it with granite I would be happier. At least he wouldn't fold, he would break and the client would have to replace him.

 

[PierArg]

... if, if, the usual professorship with white collar. Look, I've been working in the shop since I was 13 years old, you want to see that I'll do it again in the time of a coffee and it works the same?" At that point it's over, now the guy's gone for the bribe and has to prove he's better than you. go back to the cafeteria that you don't say with the piece, mount it, the car works and you're the moron who said it was complicated.....

I know how I understand you!

 

[Fulvio Romano]

p355gh en 10028 could do to your case and it is easily weldable.

but do I find them commercial tubes of this steel?

 

[MBT]

is a steel for tube bundles from heat exchangers. . .
you should easily find it in pipes

 

[Counterblow Hammer]

is a steel for tube bundles from heat exchangers. . .
you should easily find it in pipes

I agree with mbt: if you don't have enough money to spend for some steel a little more elegant, go directly on those for boilers! find them in more or less various formats and have a good weldability.

p.s.: by experience if prescriptions are required about pre-heating or post-heating of welding is good to respect them; You may find yourself inconvenience (snap fragment, for example) not really pleasant to solve. . . !

 

[Er Presidente]

but a spring steel? you give him a bang, the "tubo" flette, and then back to position.

p.s.

 

[MBT]

If it goes where I imagine, the spring steel is not the maximum.
in warm, chemically aggressive and strongly oxidizing environment, loses its characteristics in a short time

 

[Fulvio Romano]

If it goes where I imagine, the spring steel is not the maximum.
in warm, chemically aggressive and strongly oxidizing environment, loses its characteristics in a short time

pictures well, pictures.. .

 

[PierArg]

warm until what temperature?

 

[MBT]

say 1650 ° c