tariff for mechanical designer

[numero1]

I add, with the daily risk that a little boy knocks at the door and offers himself for 1449, and that therefore he is hired to replace him in a week, so tightening a dice are good all. If you're good, maybe a little less.

mmmmm now, according to me, the risk is practically equal

There was a statist who was shocked by the discovery that in the Russiany of his time a doctor earned less than a miner. He was explained that with the life of m., that is, with the usury work of a miner, that was the correct balance, otherwise they would have had so many doctors unemployed and nobody in the mine.
Think about this when, in the office, raise the heating a little bit.

beautiful this example but that, before it could work, now the doctors are deborting............ .
In other words your example can also be used on the contrary, you understand me :smile:

 

[numero1]

perarg according to me you stayed behind, obviously you do not know the companies 3.0.
in the company 3.0 the carrier is "push up" that "there are good all" thanks to the expert "drivers of the owner". therefore the company 3.0 dismisses the skilled worker to take a generic, then dismisses the general and takes an apprentice, which then does not need in fact enough an intern of the school.

the technical office / design is only a waste of time, in fact you see to eye on the moment how to realize the product.

disputes? I am not a problem thanks to the Italian judicial system, it will take a century to establish the obvious, who will live will see.
and then often one hand washes the other, if there is the p.a. every porcade is lawful with inpunity guarantee, what is a product designed and made to regulate art in a company 3.0?

I say, unfortunately, me too.

 

[numero1]

working days are not 300. if you want to compare the earnings you have to use the same parameters. The weeks are 52 but you have to take six of them off. so if you multiply 46x5x8 you get the hours worked by an employee and i.e. 1840 and I think you have to take some holidays, so the hours worked are less than 1830 ... I was wrong for excess.
If you want to work 3650 hours, no one could say anything to you (except you would distract the family) but I think you should expect to earn twice, at least.

I don't understand... .
I had the game iva in the middle of the 80s, for 5 or 6 years, okay other times, I did not have a wife etc. etc.
but I was definitely over the 1800 hours.

52 weeks per year of which 2 of holiday; intended as holiday, i.e. July, August, christmas, etc., never made 6 weeks :frown:
result 50 weeks, to be conservative we multiply them for 5 working days (let's leave the weekend), that is 250 days.
250 * 8 = 2,000 hours, but at the minimum............ Let's add some extraordinarily every now and then, 9/10 hours instead of 8, and here is that the 2,000 hours are exceeded.

I don't think I'd be able to do this now, many things have changed over the years, and not just physically; even at the level of priority, but those 1800s and broken hours sound really weird.

 

[Lettore espatriato]

also in lombardia area brianza the prices of free professionals who design and draw stand from 23 to 28€ now....who tries to make 30/35 is out.

design and design what you will know how to speak "genericly" of "design and design", means to put exactly on the same floor people working for 15€/h with others working for no less than 80€/h.

 

[Lettore espatriato]

...2,000 hours, but at the very least.........

I think so.

but there is one though. If you are so good to get paid, for example, 15000 €/h you could work, who knows, 20 hours a year and you could go on holiday for more than 11 months.

I'm obviously not that good. More than 40€/h I have never arrived, but my colleagues, in Italy, who took 70-90 €/h, did, however, their beautiful 220-240 hours monthly, which meant 2600 and spends annual hours, 15 days of holidays.

but surely they were wrong......:36_1_11:

 

[numero1]

I think so.

but there is one though. If you are so good to get paid, for example, 15000 €/h you could work, who knows, 20 hours a year and you could go on holiday for more than 11 months.

I'm obviously not that good. More than 40€/h I have never arrived, but my colleagues, in Italy, who took 70-90 €/h, did, however, their beautiful 220-240 hours monthly, which meant 2600 and spends annual hours, 15 days of holidays.

but surely they were wrong......:36_1_11:

I don't know who was wrong and where
What I would like to emphasize is that, for me, the figure of 1800 hours was unreal..........
I did not make a speech of money/hour, indeed the figures you write 40/70/90 euro/hour are all from science fiction to me, even when it was in the mid-1980s.... :
never met someone who paid like that!
So how unreal the 1800 hours are unreal, for me, the figures you just wrote.
I'm glad for you if you could make you pay 40 euros, I on my side if I wanted to earn something I obviously had to work more than 1800 hours.
We must also say, and many forget it, that at the time we had no expense; At least I didn't have them, I still lived with my parents.
so all I earned was completely mine and completely spendable.
Hi.

p.s.
rethinking when I was 5/6 years maybe 4 weeks vacation/year my family could afford them, but never 6.

 

[maxopus]

I don't understand... .
I had the game iva in the middle of the 80s, for 5 or 6 years, okay other times, I did not have a wife etc. etc.
but I was definitely over the 1800 hours.

52 weeks per year of which 2 of holiday; intended as holiday, i.e. July, August, christmas, etc., never made 6 weeks :frown:
result 50 weeks, to be conservative we multiply them for 5 working days (let's leave the weekend), that is 250 days.
250 * 8 = 2,000 hours, but at the minimum............ Let's add some extraordinarily every now and then, 9/10 hours instead of 8, and here is that the 2,000 hours are exceeded.

I don't think I'd be able to do this now, many things have changed over the years, and not just physically; even at the level of priority, but those 1800s and broken hours sound really weird.

It's obvious you don't understand what I'm talking about.

 

[cacciatorino]

It's obvious you don't understand what I'm talking about.

in 2014 I did 1780 hours of work (*), according to the excel sheet on which I keep the notes, this year so far are to 1750. Maybe I forgot to mark something, but I don't think I've lost time.

* are the hours invoiced, while I have not indicated the hours spent in the office to pass the rag, update drivers, etc.

 

[Lettore espatriato]

It's obvious you don't understand what I'm talking about.

No, no.
As far as I'm concerned, you were very clear.
your concept (obviously shared) is: if you charge less than one tot (30?35?40?) then, automatically, you are:
a) "unfair competition" (to other professional studies/books);
b) "ladro" (of taxes);
c) "exploitation" (schiavista or even, in case, self-slavery);
d) "Albanian, Serbian, Turkish or Chinese" (or some other nation considered less evolved than Italy).

Congratulations.

Of course, in case you have misunderstood your concept, I humbly apologize and I would ask you, please, to better explain what you meant.
Thank you.

 

[Lettore espatriato]

...
We must also say, and many forget it, that at the time we had no expense; At least I didn't have them, I still lived with my parents.
...

My concept is:
1) You may be paid 10 or 100 €/h and be considered, in the same way, a "unfair competition". depends mainly on which fields you work and what work you do.
2) you could earn 20k € per year or 200k and not succeed, in the same way, to arrive at the "end of the month" . how to earn 15k and be happy the same. depends on what your shopping choices are. and not as much as you pay taxes.
3) the number of hours per month, how much one earns per hour or how much one earns in total, are not guarantee of professionalism, of work ability, that pay taxes or that you use regular software.

summarizing, and having also had some colleagues who "survived" (but I, of course, do not blame them) with 20€/h, as well as companies that asked 60-70 €/h (and were not "completely in place"), I can say that, the minimum to ask, could be , 20€/h. depends on which market prices are.
Unless a free professional does a particular job (where, for example, there is no competition or where competition does not plague his feet) it is difficult for you to impose, at the penco pallo shop, your hourly cost. They can't do spa companies that have hundreds of employees and are appreciated all over the world, let alone if I can afford it, single free professional.

 

[meccanicamg]

design and design what you will know how to speak "genericly" of "design and design", means to put exactly on the same floor people working for 15€/h with others working for no less than 80€/h.

I speak generically because once you have to put on the table a ready study, another time you have to invent a solution to the problem by choosing for example a motor and a gearbox or another time you have to complete the study and make the tables. I'd say they're jobs at the same cost. If you have to invent a whole car then we have a higher cost.

 

[maxopus]

No, no.
As far as I'm concerned, you were very clear.
your concept (obviously shared) is: if you charge less than one tot (30?35?40?) then, automatically, you are:
a) "unfair competition" (to other professional studies/books);
b) "ladro" (of taxes);
c) "exploitation" (schiavista or even, in case, self-slavery);
d) "Albanian, Serbian, Turkish or Chinese" (or some other nation considered less evolved than Italy).

Congratulations.

Of course, in case you have misunderstood your concept, I humbly apologize and I would ask you, please, to better explain what you meant.
Thank you.

You misrepresented, just read with a minimum of attention what I wrote.

 

[Er Presidente]

80 euro cents per minute. this is the target (minimum) on which companies (series) fight to have a turnover "consists" employing labor (not even too specialized).
an excellent "reference parameter" to use to understand "where we are", are the hourly rates that apply dealers when they "sale" their labor.
Why an hour of labor of a "mechanical" can be sold to 47 euri while that of a designer/designer (key in hand, let's forget the employee designer) can't exceed 30?

 

[cacciatorino]

Why an hour of labor of a "mechanical" can be sold to 47 euri while that of a designer/designer (key in hand, let's forget the employee designer) can't exceed 30?

You must consider the amortizations. an account is to amortize a gommist convergence bank, an account a cad license and a computer.


then consider that there are customers who ask you for the only 3d design because then the boards make them do it from a service in India.

 

[Er Presidente]

I think so.

but there is one though. If you are so good to get paid, for example, 15000 €/h you could work, who knows, 20 hours a year and you could go on holiday for more than 11 months.

I'm obviously not that good. More than 40€/h I have never arrived, but my colleagues, in Italy, who took 70-90 €/h, did, however, their beautiful 220-240 hours monthly, which meant 2600 and spends annual hours, 15 days of holidays.

but surely they were wrong......:36_1_11:

But if you want to deal with employee work, you can't reason at 2400 hours a year. In companies the calculations are made at 1720. any worker if he works 2400 hours a year (there are) with extraordinary (ferial, nocturnal, festive and nocturnal holidays) brings home a salary as executive.
the holidays are 4 weeks a year and can not be more monetized, you have to do, point (although then...).

 

[Er Presidente]

You must consider the amortizations. an account is to amortize a gommist convergence bank, an account a cad license and a computer.


Consider that there are customers who ask you for 3d design because then the boards make them do it from a service in India.

Agreed but also a game iva, it seems to me to understand, of amortization has several and not negligible, a "mechanical" does not go around with the car and not even has to pay a rent of a room for every single employee. the p.iva live "in the sun" and have to subsidize all the expenses, planned and unexpected.
Of course, for a big engineering firm with dozens of employees, it's different, but strangely, it's the ones that apply the highest rates.

 

[cacciatorino]

must pay a rent of a room for each individual employee.

I have not understood this thing of a room for each individual employee.... :biggrin:

 

[Er Presidente]

I have not understood this ccosa of a room for each individual employee.... :biggrin:

witty...

I was saying that a piva who works as a designer, normally has a local/office whose rent/property costs must be subsidized.
a dealer has a workshop with 20 or 30 people working, so "a skull" spends much less in proportion, even because the "projectors" hardly work in "group".

That's why I said a dealer doesn't have to pay rent to a place for every employee. . :

 

[cacciatorino]

witty...

I was saying that a piva who works as a designer, normally has a local/office whose rent/property costs must be subsidized.
a dealer has a workshop with 20 or 30 people working, so "a skull" spends much less in proportion, even because the "projectors" hardly work in "group".

That's why I said a dealer doesn't have to pay rent to a place for every employee. . :

In any case I think that equipping a job for a craftsman is much more expensive than for an employee, from whom the most hourly rates, when the hourly rates have to cover also these costs.

 

[Er Presidente]

In any case I think that equipping a job for a craftsman is much more expensive than for an employee, from whom the most hourly rates, when the hourly rates have to cover also these costs.

Yeah, and no, when you can't do scale economy, it's hard. It is true that today a "mechanical" demands courses, updates and workshop equipment often very expensive, but a mechanical designer is not less, is that the costs are less "exposed".
the formation of a "mechanical" (electronic, electric or whatever) has very high costs and no one makes discounts, the construction houses force you to do them and above all to pay them (and not in black), the designer forms " alone", saves, when he did the "basic" course, maximum 20 hours or a little more, it is difficult to find who does courses of hundreds of hours for different sw.
This "saving" no longer serves to increase profits but only to survive in a market that is all crouched down.