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too volanica mclaren/mercedes

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AlbertoC

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I was perhaps sucking a bit:biggrin: but at some point I heard the brown ingenuity talking about how the mclaren damps quickly and effectively the oscillations that undergo suspensions through a flying mass. I don't understand anything else :frown: , does anyone have more details? What is the operation of this device?
Hi.
tree
 
I tried too but I didn't find much (I also noticed the statement)
it gives me the idea that the gyroscope is involved but it is a hypothesis.
 
It's a flywheel that absorbs energy... but I didn't know how to do it because they didn't say it! !
 
for what I know is a volanic mass that is rotating through a connection of type of mother-in-law screw. More or less... in any case provides the opportunity to have an extra set-up parameter; In fact, this device provides a term of "smoking" proportional to the relative acceleration. . .

In fact, to make justice to the physics of vibrations, because there is a viscous damping proportional to the relative speed, the elexicity, proportional to the relative shift, and cannot there be something proportional to the relative acceleration?

p.s.: the kers has nothing to do with it, in fact this type of solution is years that have it... Just remember how the other year flew on monza cords.. .
 
cavallipurosangue said:
for what I know is a volanic mass that is rotating through a connection of type of mother-in-law screw. More or less... in any case provides the opportunity to have an extra set-up parameter; In fact, this device provides a term of "smoking" proportional to the relative acceleration. . .

In fact, to make justice to the physics of vibrations, because there is a viscous damping proportional to the relative speed, the elexicity, proportional to the relative shift, and cannot there be something proportional to the relative acceleration?

p.s.: the kers has nothing to do with it, in fact this type of solution is years that have it... Just remember how the other year flew on monza cords.. .
Click to expand...
as I said in the previous post, the volanic mass works as a suspension vibration dampener. same effect of the mass damper used by the renault. Then why was it forbidden?
See here.http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2006/762/311.html
 
the fact is that the mass damper was also considered able to modify the aerodynamic characteristics and the regulation was forbidden, although I do not think that was the purpose of that device sincerely. . .

In this case, I think, that one cannot speak of influence on the aerodynamics, as it would seem that it is an integrated system in the suspension group and not a body completely disconnected from the rest as in the case of mass damper. .

In any case, as often in f1, when the regulations make them little understandable, the technique prevails by far politics.. .

p.s.: in fact, however, I do not agree on agreeing the principle of operation of the two solutions... in fact in the case of the mass damper there is no damping term proportional to the relative acceleration. . .
 
cavallipurosangue said:
the fact is that the mass damper was also considered able to modify the aerodynamic characteristics and the regulation was forbidden, although I do not think that was the purpose of that device sincerely. . .

In this case, I think, that one cannot speak of influence on the aerodynamics, as it would seem that it is an integrated system in the suspension group and not a body completely disconnected from the rest as in the case of mass damper. .

In any case, as often in f1, when the regulations make them little understandable, the technique prevails by far politics.. .

p.s.: in fact, however, I do not agree on agreeing the principle of operation of the two solutions... in fact in the case of the mass damper there is no damping term proportional to the relative acceleration. . .
Click to expand...
but if the mass damper is a "harmonic absorber or, resonant mass dampener. typically the dampers are mounted in the skyscrapers, or in other structures subject to oscillations, and are constituted by huge blocks of concrete suspended by means of springs, liquids or pendulums" (wikipedia).
Can you explain how it affects the aerodynamics of the car?
Thank you.
 
I know. This is a good question... :
cmq is also read at the bottom of the link you posted. I would also be curious to understand how it can directly affect the aerodynamic characteristics of the single seat!

I think it was more than just a political move, boh!
 
exatem said:
but if the mass damper is a "harmonic absorber or, resonant mass dampener. typically the dampers are mounted in the skyscrapers, or in other structures subject to oscillations, and are constituted by huge blocks of concrete suspended by means of springs, liquids or pendulums" (wikipedia).
Can you explain how it affects the aerodynamics of the car?
Thank you.
Click to expand...
preventing the front wing from vibrating and moving due to saddle suspension.
It was a shame his prohibition, signed by those who didn't.
 
Er Presidente said:
preventing the front wing from vibrating and moving due to saddle suspension.
It was a shame his prohibition, signed by those who didn't.
Click to expand...
but this is a "c@g@t@ crazy", then should also prohibit twist bars, reaction dots, shock absorbers. In short, you should go-kart from 300 to hour.
as long as the f1 is governed by people like bad-max.. .
(Hello)
 
well, I documented myself on the mass damper and all in all, in terms of regulation, from wikipedia:art. 3.15 aerodynamic influence: [...]any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance [...]
- must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom)- must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car
damping the vibrations of suspensions with a device that has more than 1 dof inevitably affects the aerodynamics is against the regulation.
at this point it remains to be understood how this volanic mass is working.
as work He certainly has at least one dof, so...
 
the flying mass should not have an additional degree of freedom than that of the suspension, in fact its rotation is bound to the compression of the shock absorber through a mating screws (the rotation of the flywheel depends directly on the compression itself, the classic x=p/(2*pi)*theta).

perhaps it is right here the escamotage, in this case you have not added a device with an additional gdl, and since the gdl that you have on each wheel is necessary. . .
 
cavallipurosangue said:
the flying mass should not have an additional degree of freedom than that of the suspension, in fact its rotation is bound to the compression of the shock absorber through a mating screws (the rotation of the flywheel depends directly on the compression itself, the classic x=p/(2*pi)*theta).

perhaps it is right here the escamotage, in this case you have not added a device with an additional gdl, and since the gdl that you have on each wheel is necessary. . .
Click to expand...
I do not like this regulation, but it exists and must be respected:
- must be rigidly fixed to the unsuspended parts of the machine (rigidly fixed means not having degrees of freedom)for what has been said until now this device has at least 1 dof (rotation) compared to the machine (under agreement as an absolute reference system).
of course my interpretation, resible compared to the verb of the integerrimo gaio m.m.
 
the mass damper is irregular because it can dynamically change the aerodynamics of the machine, as the snout of the machine and the alettone are anchored to an elastic element and therefore deformable. On the contrary, the volanic mass, as described here, acts as an internal element of the suspension that does not directly affect the aerodynamics and above all enters into operation only after a compression of the shock absorber. . .
 

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