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MassiVonWeizen
Guest
However contrary to marco I do not have the truth in my pocket, only a few years and extra experience, for what can be worth
stevie
Guest
It's Christmas Eve. I wish you all a happy holiday.
cacciatorino
Guest
I started a message I had just started writing, then as usual I was distracted to do more.. .
cacciatorino
Guest
I wanted to say that the internship, in addition to low pay, does not offer any protection such as disease, holidays, pregnancy, tfr, pension contributions, all things that instead in the apprenticeship there are.
Sincerely I am very surprised that an engineer accepts him, perhaps he does it only with the hope of entering the great industrial group, while he would not accept it if the proposal came from the small company or technical study.
from my parts the imbalance between offer and demand of engineers is giant (in favor of the ing), no engineer believes would "below" to the internship, perhaps to the north is different.
cacciatorino
Guest
I add:
if it is considered the training path too long and oversized, it is worth noting that for some years we have also in Italy its, which are postgraduate training biennials. in germany have been active for years, and thousands of "superdiplomates" per year, while we are still at the beginning.
they have a cut more 'applied than engineering so they may be more 'suitable to the everyday reality of Italian companies, in which it is true that the ing spend a great percentage of their time doing tasks so that the skills possessed are perhaps excessive compared to the operational request.
example:
www.its4puntozero.it
if it is considered the training path too long and oversized, it is worth noting that for some years we have also in Italy its, which are postgraduate training biennials. in germany have been active for years, and thousands of "superdiplomates" per year, while we are still at the beginning.
they have a cut more 'applied than engineering so they may be more 'suitable to the everyday reality of Italian companies, in which it is true that the ing spend a great percentage of their time doing tasks so that the skills possessed are perhaps excessive compared to the operational request.
example:
Its Percorsi formativi di Alta Specializzazione post diploma
Percorsi formativi di Alta Specializzazione post diploma. Oltre il 70% del programma didattico è gestito direttamente da Professionisti delle Imprese
www.its4puntozero.it
MassiVonWeizen
Guest
Certainly the internship does not have all these things, but its function is not to make you produce, pass me the term, but to get you into the working world. then we can discuss what work means, how companies really behave, "retribution", its usefulness and many other things that we no longer leave because it is a juniper.
What I want to say is that the internship is a minimum of protection from, of course the trainee must be heard if things do not go according to the agreements, so if you are not side by side, you do not receive training or if you receive it on an area already in your own possession, if you carry out production you can turn to those who protect this relationship.
the term contract instead puts you in the condition of being alone compared to the employer. If you are hired from week to week you have no certainties, you may jump from one type of work to another without acquiring any experience, you may find yourself at the end of the year with a dozen cud and take a lawful galactic the following year (I found myself with over 500€ between conguaglio and acconto and I was fortunate that I was not going to pull the strap to get to the end of the shooting If you have a few cocks with the owner or face it, and this almost certainly sends you to shit or you're leaving.
better the apprenticeship for 6/12 months, which by its nature cannot be repeated in the same discipline, without all the accessories of the worker or a term contract that can be repeated continuously with the advantages accessories?
I'm not defending the internship is clear, I'm just trying to do an analysis as critical as possible with all my limitations.
cacciatorino
Guest
I always start with the idea that hiring is at t.i., which I think we should all agree on as long as it takes to learn how to do our job decently. the contracts from a week perhaps are more common in catering and similar, generally I think that in industry there is more seriousness, at least in the technical department for the reason mentioned above.
If then instead I have to insert an unspecialized worker who after half an hour of training is already operational, then perhaps the temptation to make a "contract" can come out.
Marco9669
Guest
happy Christmas to all and happy new year
Marco9669
Guest
happy Christmas to all and happy new year
Marco9669
Guest
I still think it's better to go to work.I add:
if it is considered the training path too long and oversized, it is worth noting that for some years we have also in Italy its, which are postgraduate training biennials. in germany have been active for years, and thousands of "superdiplomates" per year, while we are still at the beginning.
they have a cut more 'applied than engineering so they may be more 'suitable to the everyday reality of Italian companies, in which it is true that the ing spend a great percentage of their time doing tasks so that the skills possessed are perhaps excessive compared to the operational request.
example:Its Percorsi formativi di Alta Specializzazione post diploma
Percorsi formativi di Alta Specializzazione post diploma. Oltre il 70% del programma didattico è gestito direttamente da Professionisti delle Imprese
MassiVonWeizen
Guest
In my opinion, for how thyroin is conceived, it makes no sense that a company does so and then leave you at home because in fact it has thrown away time and resources that translate into costs.
Therefore for me an internship is always propedeutic to a subsequent indefinite contract (where we remember that there is a trial period that is worth as much as a fixed time contract).
term contracts are also used in industry.
the problem in my opinion is not the contracts and how they are thought, but the fact that they are used with the classic Italian method of who cares about the laws so much I know' smart. the result is that the employer locks the employee by giving him instability and these in turn locks the employer by taking care of what he does next week who knows if there are (situations seen and heard, fortunately not lived).
Therefore for me an internship is always propedeutic to a subsequent indefinite contract (where we remember that there is a trial period that is worth as much as a fixed time contract).
term contracts are also used in industry.
the problem in my opinion is not the contracts and how they are thought, but the fact that they are used with the classic Italian method of who cares about the laws so much I know' smart. the result is that the employer locks the employee by giving him instability and these in turn locks the employer by taking care of what he does next week who knows if there are (situations seen and heard, fortunately not lived).
Marco9669
Guest
sincerely I would say better contract to term because immediately after a short time they understand the true intentions of the master if to hire you or not. with internships we talk about hiring towards the end and then 5 months later, with contract to term already after 2 or 3 renewal takes the hiring.
Marco9669
Guest
then the idea is right, we agree on that. but also communism conceptually is not bad but it is the practice that matters.
MassiVonWeizen
Guest
per quello su 3° media
MassiVonWeizen
Guest
I see you read only what's good for you.
the internship is propedeutic to the intake; It makes no sense to form a person, not productive in that fringe, at own expense and then to send it away. different speech is the internship during the school period, but generally dedicated to professional schools, in which for a month you endure each other and then many greetings.
with contract to temine you can see renewed the period of two months in two months, even week by week sometimes, without any hiring (if there is a contractual obligation on this limit please report it) and if you don't mind you stay at home. ; I want to see you with these expectations put on your so much agonized family saying to your wife "was that for the next two months we have food and then... we hope well"
Stefano_GS
Guest
Happy Christmas to all.
It was not my intention to unleash this controversy. The curricular internship serves to make contact with the world of work and in my case serve the company to keep a channel of contact with the university world. these 300 hours have a basic pay also nothing but then it's up to the company to decide what to do (in my case we planned a pay).
At least in my case I can say that the extracurricular internship has certain fiscal advantages but the pay is no lower than an apprenticeship contract to make an example (with the integrations we are on the 1200 net month). Let's talk about guys who are still finishing the course of study, in practice they graduate approximately in the period when the internship expires. our intention is to insert them indefinitely.
I don't know your experience, my own is that training efforts are high for the company. often the graduates have basic technical skills and a high potential but banally big problems in falling into an industrial reality (write an email to request offer of a component to a supplier sends them into crisis) and a huge slowness in developing activities.
It is not a complaint but a normal learning process that I first had to develop in my time.
we started with curricular internships because once graduates engineers in our area you struggle to find them.
we are an Italian medium enterprise (65-75 total employees) located in a premonetary area a little out of hand compared to industrial centers.
the company also has a regular project of curricular internships with a local professional institute and all the latest recruitments in production were boys who had made the internship in the period of study.
It was not my intention to unleash this controversy. The curricular internship serves to make contact with the world of work and in my case serve the company to keep a channel of contact with the university world. these 300 hours have a basic pay also nothing but then it's up to the company to decide what to do (in my case we planned a pay).
At least in my case I can say that the extracurricular internship has certain fiscal advantages but the pay is no lower than an apprenticeship contract to make an example (with the integrations we are on the 1200 net month). Let's talk about guys who are still finishing the course of study, in practice they graduate approximately in the period when the internship expires. our intention is to insert them indefinitely.
I don't know your experience, my own is that training efforts are high for the company. often the graduates have basic technical skills and a high potential but banally big problems in falling into an industrial reality (write an email to request offer of a component to a supplier sends them into crisis) and a huge slowness in developing activities.
It is not a complaint but a normal learning process that I first had to develop in my time.
we started with curricular internships because once graduates engineers in our area you struggle to find them.
we are an Italian medium enterprise (65-75 total employees) located in a premonetary area a little out of hand compared to industrial centers.
the company also has a regular project of curricular internships with a local professional institute and all the latest recruitments in production were boys who had made the internship in the period of study.
cacciatorino
Guest
here from me (region brands) internships have a maximum duration of six months, is a "refund expenses" of minimum 500 euros and maximum 800 euros, monthly.
Perhaps you have exploited the fact that they have not yet finished their studies and so you have inserted them into a kind of "work school alternation".
for the training speech there is however the path of the apprenticeship, in which both the pay and the contribution are reduced, which partially compensates for the problems you indicate.
Tristus
Guest
Of course it's very important. to shout revenge are those 600 euros.
It's normal, they're blacked out! It's normal.
you will have to train them, you will have to forge them according to the business needs, they will need a period of "acclimation".
What's so weird? If you don't want to take risks, don't look for graduates. . search for people who have experience. Why seek graduates?
Apologies, in the form you require so many of those requirements to candidates that it is very difficult for you to meet candidates who do not know how to write an email correctly.
If then you really happen and you have few hopes that improve, then after 6 months you tell him "it was a pleasure, we don't need you."
In short, it is those 600 euros that have rightly triggered reactions also on socials.
It is that in Italy there is the culture of subpagation, besides everything else. It is not so in the rest of the countries where so many young Italians prefer to fly.
Marco9669
Guest
The most disturbing thing is that there is the culture of subpagging in a stupid way.
a designer is worth a lot because his mistake affects enormously on all production, saving on the designer means not competing in the design and you know what? design is everything.
Moreover the possibilities of increasing salaries are there because companies are fine and earn well. there is only the logic of paying little engineers and just without logical reason losing us a lot in fidelity, commitment, creativity etc.
and do not dare to put in the middle the excuse of productivity or that "can not write commercial mail" that you are pathetic.
You pay them 600 euros a month and you complain as well? but go shit.
doesn't it suit them?! How not. I work 6 months free and then they can decide if to send me home. term contracts and internships are the same. they can send you home today as tomorrow only that with internships you work for free while with the contract at least they pay you.
a designer is worth a lot because his mistake affects enormously on all production, saving on the designer means not competing in the design and you know what? design is everything.
Moreover the possibilities of increasing salaries are there because companies are fine and earn well. there is only the logic of paying little engineers and just without logical reason losing us a lot in fidelity, commitment, creativity etc.
and do not dare to put in the middle the excuse of productivity or that "can not write commercial mail" that you are pathetic.
You pay them 600 euros a month and you complain as well? but go shit.
What are you talking about? are 600 euros per month? extra can be deducted from taxes! but what training are we talking about? I was on stage after 2 weeks already doing my own computer.. .
doesn't it suit them?! How not. I work 6 months free and then they can decide if to send me home. term contracts and internships are the same. they can send you home today as tomorrow only that with internships you work for free while with the contract at least they pay you.
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