Marco9669
Guest
with everything I wrote a mistake.... .
putting yourself in your own can definitely be a good solution.
putting yourself in your own can definitely be a good solution.
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PIETRO2002
Guest
At this point, do you think that the continuation of this discussion may bring some further benefit to someone, or is it not better to draw a line and close it here?
TECNOMODEL
Guest
The second you said
mekeuro
Guest
At least you have the humility to say that you came out of the university and you can't do anything. This is already a good approach, I know so many graduates who entered the technical office and sold themselves for established professionals, quarrels with all those who were allowed to reprimand them for some mistakes, milliarding university experiences of internship master.Good morning, I'm rotten, an engineer... in theory.
I tell you my story:
I graduated master's degree in mechanical engineering at 26 years because I started a year after college and lost a year in three years. It wasn't easy. economic problems, feeling a failure, fighting in the family, feeling offended by everything and by everyone, not feeling good at doing anything, but eventually I did it. I hate college, but I love mechanics. I hate the university system that only teaches what you don't need at work; I hate the fact that I came out that I couldn't do anything about anything. I hate so many college things, but the thing I hate most of all is that they lied to me all this time. it is not true that the university serves to find work; it is not true that the university serves to work; It's not for success. The university helps.... help? It helps. But how much? Here is this you never told me you professors, you proud engineers with capital with belly (pink) inside and chest outside... helps to find work more than one degree in letters but less than a simple paid course of 500euro. It seems mental that I did. I really thought the only way to look for work was to study six years? I didn't think that if I had turned 1 year every day looking for work I wouldn't have found a job like that or, indeed, probably a better job?
I tell you the truth, I don't want to lie to you because it's not right to do it, so I say: stop at the diploma, look for work and if you don't find it easily you do 1 cad course, if you don't just do a cam course and if you don't just take all the solidworks certifications or any software that comes to mind. I guarantee that it will be easier to become "certified solidworks expert" than to take even three years in engineering. and I assure you that to work is much more ulite (but much more) a certificate that graduates in mechanical engineering. you are curious and you want to understand why and for what? honor to you, you are like me. but also in that case the university is to be rejected. If you are curious, take information about the books used by students at the university (or even better pass the notes of the lessons from them), read on Saturday night and get back to work on Monday morning. because boys the truth is that after 5 years (if, maybe :roflmaoof study are 1300 European net (after 6 months of internship
....so if you are a phenomenon the first salary of 1300 European nets you get to 25 years, but sincerely from the.... from us start in 70 and they graduate in 5 to session then I would say to 26 years... maybe even 27 in a year gone while instead your friend has started working at 20 years (it is because a year is taking us a year of pacchia) takes already at least 1500/1600, has a plan of life, soon will ask for the increase and shortly will buy house with the partner. What about you? nothing you are 26 years old with a hunger salary and you still have to live with your other 5 years to think about buying house with the partner (always if you are, because oh engineers do not go stealing and sincerely it is right so since we are ugly, dislike and poor in barrel).
engineer = success? No, work = success. !
I already work... because even here I see that a graduate has more desire than a college graduate. we graduates are exhausted, tired, lame... empty. because it is not easy to admit to ourselves that we have lost too much and earned nothing.
The only real thing that taught me my study trip is that I learned not to believe in promises. Mechanical engineering is a promise.
I hope to have been useful to a curious boy like I was and who loved mechanics as I loved her not to spoil as I did.
p.s no I am not a particular case, indeed I am lucky that I have been framed well (sometimes make even 1200.......). ccnl for a master engineer is a 5s go to see that net is
I've been working for 17 years and I say that I'm still learning today, I do the free profession, so I'm not addicted to anyone, things have to solve them alone... and satisfy customers.
humility, low head and sacrifices will see the right way!
IronMike87
Guest
I'm talking to you as a widely dissatisfied student of your polimi experience.
personally what I see as a major major lack is a strong neckline between what is the method, methods of study, and their verification, and what is then the real method of application in the world of work.
I think this is due almost entirely to the fact that those who teach, in Italy hardly works. and if he works, he does it as an external consultant that objectively is a privileged position.
Maybe something is changing (at least speaking with newly-graduated colleagues), but always too slowly.
what impute to the Italian system is not to predict the theory to the application, but to predict the verification of theoretical knowledge to the practical resolution of a problem. what is the added value, in 202x, to know by memory an equation of the motion of poinsot than to solve a complex problem with the same?
I think the engineer's work is to get to the solution of complex problems. I think that unfortunately the university system entrusts this responsibility to our Italian spirit of invective that alone has done and continues to do so much, without actually expressing it in all its potential.
I said that, I don't spit in the dish I ate. the university path gave me so much, in good and evil. dissatisfaction certainly comes in having seen the great shortcomings of a structure that is so glorified.
but this I think has more to do with the socio-political context related to the Italian industrial fabric.
of course I can say only a few things:
- the illusion that in 2022 the sheet of paper is enough to remain competitive in the world of the market should be abolished from the 1st university day, and indeed perhaps from the 1st day of the 3rd year of high school.
today in the world of work the plus do it the "accessories" knowledge and softskills.
Of course, I can say that hearing graduates speaking about an Englishman worse than I had at the time of graduation, it makes me think a lot. same discourse for extra-curricular knowledge in the world where there are platforms such as coursera / edx / etc...
- There is a widespread shortage of skilled labour. symptom that the sheet of paper perhaps continues to be in the imaginary a saving object able to solve all problems, when absolutely it is not so and it would serve to clarify it socially
- an educational path that in 2022 never explains throughout the school of the obligation (and even in the university path) the operation of the Italian tax system (unless I do not do specific courses) I, modestly, consider it absolutely demential
stevie
Guest
I myself have made polimi, at the time of the old order and all this neckline between theory and practice I have not found it, indeed for the "professional" courses, which then are science of construction, construction of machines, metallurgy, mechanical technology, applied mechanics I remember that the exercises were full of more or less real cases, it is clear that it is not possible to cover all existing real cases, of course.
I have had the opportunity to analyze also the courses of foreign universities (mainly German and French) and are equal, so I do not feel to "culpable" the Italian university.
coming to your "dubbi"
1 - regarding the speech "English spoken" why continue to tease us?
to be effective, understand and be understood is indispensable an experience in an Anglophone country, you can do all the listening you want but spoken English is commonly different from the "school" and academic one you find in the courses.
2 - the shortage of skilled labor in the metalworking industry is mainly due to the fact that it is difficult, laborious and averagely paid little jobs, so people do well to prefer more! It is much better than a basic job, where in the end you earn practically equal or little less, you sit and warm (or cool in summer) , you have no big responsibility, at 17.15 you break and good night!
3 - the Italian tax system is so complex, variable and unstable that not even the employees of the works often manage to distract, so sincerely propose it as a matter of study "generic" I consider it substantially useless. Then consider that every year changes something, so even if you had a course a few years ago, you'd be dismissed.
Marco9669
Guest
Unfortunately, there are many.
Thank you.
All right. the illusion of believing that just having a sheet of paper will allow you to earn more and be more competitive is pure invention. It doesn't necessarily serve the expensive university or master to show someone to be good (or genes according to how you want to look..) sometimes it just works well to do it.2 - the shortage of skilled labor in the metalworking industry is mainly to blame for the fact that it is difficult, tiring and averagely paid little jobs, so people do well to prefer!
I don't really agree with that. Surely there are also difficult jobs, tiring and paid little, but I know a lot of people who don't go wrong. Moreover today with the increasingly increased digitalization I see more and more that the workers assume more a role of "line management" resulting in substantial increase in the salary. be skilled labour today by many jobs in industry.
I think there's a little bigger mistakes in the technical office.
some basis on the tax system and on the management of own finance I would give it myself.
Fulvio Romano
Guest
Hi, I'm telling you about the university of religious napoli ii, I graduated in 2006.
I probably had a more fortunate situation. Most of my professors have prepared us very well in the world of work, often doing practical examples in lesson of business problems really solved.
I do not remember, but I remember well the first half hour of university lesson where this thing has been told and emphasized many times.
the qualification exam (or state examination) has this topic among the mandatory ones. also how it works arched and the deontological code.
If I have to find a sin in my academic training, it is that we are illusive of being able to calculate freely things that are then regulated in the world of work. If you don't know that there is the norm you risk throwing days to do useless accounts.
IronMike87
Guest
in fact I have not extended to engineering in general. In fact, to want to be lazy I should have said polimi-ing.meccanica since already changing orientation often things change drastically (although they should not).
I really struggle to remember at the moment practical examples brought by teachers
never. will be one of search motive polimi was the postgraduate employment rate, but never discussed this topic in the classroom.
of dear grace that for my form minds, advice received in the family circle, time and economic availability I could follow some course that certainly made from bonuses at the time of the first working experiences and subsequent recruitments
But we're talking about different things. I fortunately was one of the last trainees to take the economic examination, then removed from the study plan. and already it was matter very superficially.
I think that a state should give all citizens who have access to work, such an education that will allow them to know and understand how the state itself works. the bistreat and vituper civic education It should also speak and explain the functioning of the tax system, since until proven otherwise we all have to pay taxes.
instead we find ourselves in situations at the limit of the grotesque where there are graduates (also in scientific subjects) who have no idea how the scaglioni irpef functions or the difference between deducibility and detraibility.
nothing prohibits thinking that, in the end, perhaps this is precisely the goal of those who govern the state itself
cacciatorino
Guest
That would be a lot to know, but if she had to teach her all the school/university, we should study up to 50 years played. To say, it's important for you to know how taxes work, for another how racing bike works, for others the history of Russian ballet...
In short, selecting the teachings seems inevitable, then in adult life everyone will deepen the topics they like or serve.
cacciatorino
Guest
you need years of experience to make yourself credible, not rush the times.
Fulvio Romano
Guest
Well, civic education at least should be done in compulsory school. Do you know how many people I know that you beat your chest because you claim to elect the president of the council? and that does not distinguish between "state" and "government"? and what do you think parliament is the government?
IronMike87
Guest
But allow me to reiterate that unlike the examples you brought, and the same legislative structure cited by @fulvio Roman (the vote is a right but not a duty, if not moral), regarding tax structures, judicial and contributions no matter who you are, if you are an Italian citizen or who lives and works legally in Italy, you will have to deal with it without if and without but.
at 16 years you can start working, and you do not know anything about the above stated.
Okay, in the internet age everything is found, but do we really want to leave the web the burden of forming anyone who intends to deepen these topics?
and I speak of basic knowledge. differences between ccnl, deducibility, pension, etc... also just explain how to read a pay envelope would be a great big step forward
TECNOMODEL
Guest
if it is for this reason the school does not teach (va) even how the state in which we live, figure out such topics.
and I speak of middle and upper schools and the foundations of our constitution, our governing bodies etc.
Those who, even today, claim to be able to elect the president of the council, which would require a change to the constitutional charter, which has a different iter from a simple law.
Marco9669
Guest
I think more than selecting lessons should be made selection of teachers. It is not possible that a university professor did not work 1 day throughout his life. I throughout my university career lost more time learning formulas by memory than understanding concepts; This is because in the end you have to pass the exam and if the professor does not allow you to have a form you cannot do otherwise. I come to mind every time the professors told me: "You guys in the company if you don't know by heart these formulas are over!" as if in the company you allow, during the design to have confidence in the memory instead of a manual! I've been fine too! but how many kids are missing at the university for a couple of exams and are years and years to repeat the year? for stupid formulas to learn by memory only and exclusively to pass an exam! They should not, in my opinion, be accepted in such important positions for the future of young teachers who have not done at least a couple of years of experience because they are not practical, they are theoretical and do not really understand what exactly they are explaining. Of course we all go out that we don't know how to make an emeritus bat, because those who form us don't know an emerita mazza herself!
any matter is important if done well, but are not done well by non-practice people.
because with all due respect but I was in theory "engineer", but in practice I did not know what the machine directive was and I had never seen half a norm. now to rethink we do not blame companies if they take us on stage, in fact we go out from university with the characteristics of those who taught us: ignorant, sluggish and demanding.
any matter is important if done well, but are not done well by non-practice people.
because with all due respect but I was in theory "engineer", but in practice I did not know what the machine directive was and I had never seen half a norm. now to rethink we do not blame companies if they take us on stage, in fact we go out from university with the characteristics of those who taught us: ignorant, sluggish and demanding.
cacciatorino
Guest
It seems to me that you're committing some presumption. You can't judge a person's professional trajectory just for seeing her a little bit of a lesson.
I've done engineering, too, but I've never seen such behavior, or even heard such statements.
PierArg
Guest
to me actually happened the opposite: I was always told that the formulas were understood, not learned by memory.
In fact, a professor always said: "I know that after the exam the formulas you have already forgotten. for this I ask you the meaning and their interpretation"
In fact, a professor always said: "I know that after the exam the formulas you have already forgotten. for this I ask you the meaning and their interpretation"
stevie
Guest
oh yesss
Stan9411
Guest
never heard of stuff like that... professors who force to learn by memory... but when ever..
mekeuro
Guest
I remember my engineering professors (mechanical) without any work experience, only theoreticians, tumbled with theory!
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