lory.b
Guest
they are all part of the nemetschek group but develop their products independently.
I do.
I do.
Arch.Salv67
Guest
they agree with lory.b regarding the confusion of files received from other technical studies.
example, these days I have to complete the 3d return of a lottization plan (what you do to camp).
the original project was completed by another technician and the file received is in dwg format.
the whole project (and is large) is located on layer 0, imagine the massacre if you have to make changes to the project! !
many users of cad or bim are aware of the existence of layers, or pictures or categories etc.... They draw everything without a minimum of criterion, after they pass their structured files to “segugemember” (look at the colored expression but when it takes..) and those who receive it before starting their work must go mad to fix everything.
the basics to be able to use a program are to be able to place all the elements drawn in the right categories (or layers that are).
this is true if you work in 2d and 3d.
n.b. thanks zetadierre too good.
Except... .
example, these days I have to complete the 3d return of a lottization plan (what you do to camp).
the original project was completed by another technician and the file received is in dwg format.
the whole project (and is large) is located on layer 0, imagine the massacre if you have to make changes to the project! !
many users of cad or bim are aware of the existence of layers, or pictures or categories etc.... They draw everything without a minimum of criterion, after they pass their structured files to “segugemember” (look at the colored expression but when it takes..) and those who receive it before starting their work must go mad to fix everything.
the basics to be able to use a program are to be able to place all the elements drawn in the right categories (or layers that are).
this is true if you work in 2d and 3d.
n.b. thanks zetadierre too good.
Except... .
XCAD
Guest
absolutely everything true, but I think it is only a "financial" operation while for the sw the various sw house I think they still travel in a + or - independent way.
p.s.
to note that in vw they integrated the engine to render c4d, while in allplan no;
There can only be three explanations in my opinion
(see that all sw are part of the nem.):
1. Allplan has a better rendering engine (depending on my experience: to be excluded in total! )
2. to the nem want to push the purchase of c4d (it would not be understood why in vw the rendering engine was acquired by c4d)
3. allplan is "a little old", it is written in an obsolete language and it is not possible to integrate a motor to render like that.
I suspect that the third option is the right one (and it is one of the reasons that is leading me to vw).
XCAD
Guest
Of course the more I navigate between the sites connected to vw and the more I convince myself that it is the right sw for architectural design and visualization.
Damn it! There are fantastic ad hoc libraries!
in the gallery then (always that what is stated is correct) there are spectacular interior renderings only using vw+rworks
, while with allplan if you do not recur to c4d there is little to do:frown:.
you can dream of things like this: great vw program!
according to you should wait for some fair to buy at discounted price (vw architect+rworks from list we are at 3000 €)?
Damn it! There are fantastic ad hoc libraries!
in the gallery then (always that what is stated is correct) there are spectacular interior renderings only using vw+rworks
, while with allplan if you do not recur to c4d there is little to do:frown:.you can dream of things like this: great vw program!
according to you should wait for some fair to buy at discounted price (vw architect+rworks from list we are at 3000 €)?
Arch.Salv67
Guest
I when I bought the program I received a discount, demonstrating to own a license of another professional cad product.
you should contact the Italian distributor videocom, and ask for information.
Save.. .
you should contact the Italian distributor videocom, and ask for information.
Save.. .
XCAD
Guest
Interesting, I think I'll try to contact the videocom to get me a quote.
MirkoNEO
Guest
Allplan:
I used it in a prefabricated company, about 3 or 4 years ago, to make the preliminary design of the various sheds, then I passed to the executive and drawings for the production in the same environment. was the only time to have a decent and integrated engineering department (design of carpentry and armor, as well as insert management, and who has ever had to deal with heavy prefabricancies know what I mean). then has a management of lists (translating as metric compute) that scares!
the basic idea of allplan is that with the 3d you definitely do not solve everything, so instead of making you ultra-worked macros (in revit families) and that maybe you will use once, you should work in 2d (thinking customizations on prospectuses and sections). then do not update the basic software very much because they prefer to add potential to what they already have. prefer not to overwhelm but increase productivity by means of small changes or adding new features.
vectorworks:
I am always in love with her simplicity in the table. You pull out really nice boards, but eventually I got bored because you stop there. 3d management is great, 2d management is great, but fine, stay there. you have integrated electronic sheets that allow you to have a sketch of metric compute (you have totals of an area, length of a segment, of a polylinea but not the formula that justifies you the total... That's all he does. I repeat to make projects is more than good, I would say wonderful... but for the contour (computi, law 10, carpenterie and armor... you are cut out) long can create discomfort.. At least he created them to me. here perhaps and this is the limit of vector, being disconnected from everything and everyone.
revit:
It is the true bim, with all its limits and its merits. manage everything, but at first you have to sweat and above all you will never have the opportunity to fully customize the drawings (nothing of charity, I speak for example of the stairs, or some work on the facades of the buildings and many times also on the intersections of the walls). here is the most bim.
in conclusion, allplan if you want everything but are willing to do something in 2d, vector for its simplicity in pulling out beautiful tables, revit if you want the bim par excellence.
a passionate advice, see them all three before taking one, spend some time with those who use them every day and try to understand who of the three helps you more to do your work, not limiting you so much on the design, but also on the contour (catasto, computi, esecutivi, contenimento energetic. ...).
I used it in a prefabricated company, about 3 or 4 years ago, to make the preliminary design of the various sheds, then I passed to the executive and drawings for the production in the same environment. was the only time to have a decent and integrated engineering department (design of carpentry and armor, as well as insert management, and who has ever had to deal with heavy prefabricancies know what I mean). then has a management of lists (translating as metric compute) that scares!
the basic idea of allplan is that with the 3d you definitely do not solve everything, so instead of making you ultra-worked macros (in revit families) and that maybe you will use once, you should work in 2d (thinking customizations on prospectuses and sections). then do not update the basic software very much because they prefer to add potential to what they already have. prefer not to overwhelm but increase productivity by means of small changes or adding new features.
vectorworks:
I am always in love with her simplicity in the table. You pull out really nice boards, but eventually I got bored because you stop there. 3d management is great, 2d management is great, but fine, stay there. you have integrated electronic sheets that allow you to have a sketch of metric compute (you have totals of an area, length of a segment, of a polylinea but not the formula that justifies you the total... That's all he does. I repeat to make projects is more than good, I would say wonderful... but for the contour (computi, law 10, carpenterie and armor... you are cut out) long can create discomfort.. At least he created them to me. here perhaps and this is the limit of vector, being disconnected from everything and everyone.
revit:
It is the true bim, with all its limits and its merits. manage everything, but at first you have to sweat and above all you will never have the opportunity to fully customize the drawings (nothing of charity, I speak for example of the stairs, or some work on the facades of the buildings and many times also on the intersections of the walls). here is the most bim.
in conclusion, allplan if you want everything but are willing to do something in 2d, vector for its simplicity in pulling out beautiful tables, revit if you want the bim par excellence.
a passionate advice, see them all three before taking one, spend some time with those who use them every day and try to understand who of the three helps you more to do your work, not limiting you so much on the design, but also on the contour (catasto, computi, esecutivi, contenimento energetic. ...).
Tristan
Guest
in the next release there will be some good news on the stairs (and I dare say finally! )
I know that maybe in this post is a little out of place but maybe it is convenient to many to know that there is a pre-release of revit lt on autodesk labs
http://labs.autodesk.com/utilities/spark/is free until July 2012...if you want to try it :biggrin:
MirkoNEO
Guest
But what good news.... I ask you nothing else to get in trouble, but how many questions I should ask you!
XCAD
Guest
Thank you, I really needed to understand the "pros and cons" of the various sw.
I would be curious to know from those who use vw architect ita, if it is better than the international version for some aspects (computi, abachi, etc.).
I miss the meaning of this statement on myrkoneo vw: "the management of the 3d is great, the management of the 2d is great, but fine, stay there" (e.g. with allplan does not seem to me that you can do much in 3d: for certain operations you are forced to use c4d, if you want to model particular things).
anyway thanks to all of you!
I am making an increasingly complete picture of sw for architectural design!
MirkoNEO
Guest
Mooooolto better vw architect ita, is more adherent to Italian standards and to our way of drawing (videocom proposes additions and useful mooolto plugins)!
I always think about the real world of the Italian designer (I don't know what your target is). I make houses and palaces, not things like the guggenheim museum... first I want something that draws me the ordinary, for the extraordinary if it happens you find the streets... Then can I tell you something? had you are a c4d user and I have to tell you that I also prefer it to 3dstudio... is immediate and easy to use.. .
XCAD
Guest
............... no guggenheim museum unfortunately!
take away a curiosity in vw (it is a festry, but it is something that has always made me "arrabbiare con allplan"):
in the insertion of a lock in an external wall I often have to create the "mazzetta", but with allplan the window element is drawn to me of the width of the hole and the frame of the lock, which should end behind the bat, is not inserted (which graphically is bad, but it is also worse in the 3d because from the inside remains a "empty" all around the lock): It would be necessary to create a special macro, but those who tried well know how complicated it is and eventually accept things as they are.
one of the things that I would like very much if I had to pass to vw is the "refinement" of some details (such as the one indicated above and others as protruding davanzali, etc.). Because if I want them in my tables, now as now, with allplan I am forced to draw them in 2d later (and it is not very nice!).
take away a curiosity in vw (it is a festry, but it is something that has always made me "arrabbiare con allplan"):
in the insertion of a lock in an external wall I often have to create the "mazzetta", but with allplan the window element is drawn to me of the width of the hole and the frame of the lock, which should end behind the bat, is not inserted (which graphically is bad, but it is also worse in the 3d because from the inside remains a "empty" all around the lock): It would be necessary to create a special macro, but those who tried well know how complicated it is and eventually accept things as they are.
one of the things that I would like very much if I had to pass to vw is the "refinement" of some details (such as the one indicated above and others as protruding davanzali, etc.). Because if I want them in my tables, now as now, with allplan I am forced to draw them in 2d later (and it is not very nice!).
MirkoNEO
Guest
that is why I tell you to take vw architect ita, because it is present and better finished in the Italian version...
Karnil
Guest
Hello ragazzuoli. I use this topic to ask for information about vectorworks.
to premit that I have been an allplan user for some years, that I continue to buy updates, although every year there are only small "wisdoms", I am deciding to convert myself to vectorworks.
first, because I can no longer have a virtual machine on the mac, because nemeteschek is stubborn to develop the product only for windows; while all its other applications (vectorworks, cinema, archicad...) run smoothly on both I know.
Secondly, although bic assistants speed up final work, for complex modeling there is to lose sleep and imagination!
from a few days, I got a school version of vectorworks 2012, with integrated renderworks, but I'm afraid to start using it.
first for lack of time, to learn from zero a new know; also the money spent so far for the product.
What do you recommend?
to premit that I have been an allplan user for some years, that I continue to buy updates, although every year there are only small "wisdoms", I am deciding to convert myself to vectorworks.
first, because I can no longer have a virtual machine on the mac, because nemeteschek is stubborn to develop the product only for windows; while all its other applications (vectorworks, cinema, archicad...) run smoothly on both I know.
Secondly, although bic assistants speed up final work, for complex modeling there is to lose sleep and imagination!
from a few days, I got a school version of vectorworks 2012, with integrated renderworks, but I'm afraid to start using it.
first for lack of time, to learn from zero a new know; also the money spent so far for the product.
What do you recommend?
XCAD
Guest
I too, being a teacher, I am asking for a "student" version because only 30 days of the demo version are not enough (I realize that I should perhaps try to shorten the times, but time is little!).
Sure that after spending a nice package of money for allplan and having "brown the horns" to learn it a bit I'm sorry, but it is also true that while being a good sw, it continues to highlight some limits that begin to be really tight (and frankly for my work is not so fast and productive in use).
If I can learn vw in reasonable times I just think I won't think about it twice: I will acquire the license and .... goodbye allplan! (which maybe then who knows ....... I will regret for some function that I will not find in vw: but to see the results of vw I do not think so!).
Sure that after spending a nice package of money for allplan and having "brown the horns" to learn it a bit I'm sorry, but it is also true that while being a good sw, it continues to highlight some limits that begin to be really tight (and frankly for my work is not so fast and productive in use).
If I can learn vw in reasonable times I just think I won't think about it twice: I will acquire the license and .... goodbye allplan! (which maybe then who knows ....... I will regret for some function that I will not find in vw: but to see the results of vw I do not think so!).
Karnil
Guest
to speed up learning times, it only takes a video course. because between reading a guide and hitting the movements and seeing them on screen from third parties, it is quite different, sincerely I am spending too much money between software and various updates.
allplan has spectacular applications (extra) such as the facade module, railing, mdt, the creation of easy roofs...but when you switch to the particular modeling, there is to be killed.
what I hate, is the obligation to export to cinema, even a simple 3d model, only because it does not have a decent graphic engine.
But I decided to change the philosophy of work. in good or evil I have to set aside allplan and pass to vectorworks. some jobs seen, are a magnificence
XCAD
Guest
compliments, despite all I did not have the courage to start studying pure cinema4d and I continued to settle for what was doing allplan (that sadness ....!). but you, as an allplan user, have managed to understand (or at least imagine) why the sw is not actually renewed in its weakest parts by now for years and years? I mean modeling 3d, rendering, modeling scales (very old and never seen significantly), etc... It is also true that some modules allow to do even particular things (module railings, etc.), but their use is not very intuitive and easy. in wanting to go to vw, I comfort the fact that I have not yet heard criticism for vw as an allplan.
Karnil
Guest
I fell in love with allplan, cause third parties. I was taking the first steps on archicad when I was shown to the sae and decided to try it with this software. over the years, they have implemented and tried to facilitate the use of some very special modules (they could have avoided) not considering the implementation a decent graphic engine (which according to a friend who works in nemetschek, should arrive next year), because the sw is born for designers and engineers.
when it was developed, it drew only armor for cement; then they approached the architectonic with the bim. for this is always too schematic, parametric.
The ladder module, I've come to hate him. when you try to create a scale, slightly different from normal... there is to be sclered. . .
cinema is very simple. I didn't read a manual page, I followed the forum of a colleague who is definitely "good", and learned the basic things for a discreet render. even because if you carry out the model from allplan (also here you have to be careful how to export it, or become crazy in looking for objects in the infinite pictures) on cinema you just have to render.
even without using the vray, with the basic materials, you always get a higher result!
I would like to have just a few tips from users navigated with vw, because the manuals in my possession (basic 1 and 2 - architect) have a total of 2300 pages and alone I would put 50 lives!
for now I follow zetadierre videos, but it would be well accepted any help!
lory.b
Guest
you ask the questions, I will try to answer
I do.
Karnil
Guest
the important and primary thing, is the division and classification of the project.you ask the questions, I will try to answer
I do.
with allplan, I create my own structure levels giving it heights (pareti-solai) and then manage the roof with an external level.
Besides the different pictures, I can turn them on and off or even make them passive in the background. Can you do something like that?
Are there any bim assistants to speed up work?
For now, these are the primary things!