what pneumatic piston do i take to lift 200 dan?

[Danlau]

hello to all, I need a hand to calculate the type of cylinder I need and features.

I have to take a double effect, to raise 200 dan, must have a 200 mm run, must work in humid environment, and perhaps I would also like to be able to wash it with water externally.
what kind of cylinder should I take with what features?

if you can take a look here:http://it.rs-online.com/web/search/...hod=browsesupersection&n=4294592152#attuatori and find something that would happen, you could report it to me so that you have a more precise idea.

Thank you very much for your help!

 

[reb_bl]

Not bad, you've been a little vague. It's like I wondered what means to use to make 1000 km in a day.

How is it mounted?
How do you work?
bar available?
etc.

 

[MBT]

right comments, reb_bl
However, to direct it to something more than rs-online, I would suggest these sites of buildershttp://catalogue.camozzi.com/explorer.aspx?u_code=1_0_0_0_0http://store.norgren.com/it/it-it/cat3/node1002.htmlhttp://www.parker.com/portal/site/p...t=pneumatic+cylinders+-+europe&wtky=cylindershttp://www.festo.com/cms/it_it/9725.htmjust to have something to read
some also make it in stainless steel, for aggressive environments
about strength... bhe, you need to know the air pressure
then from there, force/pression = area in cm2 and consequently alesage of the cylinder

 

[Danlau]

Not bad, you've been a little vague. It's like I wondered what means to use to make 1000 km in a day.

How is it mounted?
How do you work?
bar available?
etc.

hello reb_bl and mbt, a thank you for the interventions.
Then,
for how it is mounted I attach you a quick design I made.
for how it works, it must lift and lower every 15 minutes about the weight, for a frequency of 2-3 hours maximum.
bar available, I have a 100 lt compressor with ps 11 bar. (although I have to control it, because I turned it off 2 years ago working and now I don't understand why, no more).

apart from this, if you need more ask me, because alone I don't know what to tell you that can be useful.
Finally I noticed that there are various types of cylinders (iso xxxx, vdma, etc.) I have no idea what they mean, so I asked for general help!

Thank you very much

 

[Vittorio]

hello reb_bl and mbt, a thank you for the interventions.
Then,
for how it is mounted I attach you a quick design I made.
for how it works, it must lift and lower every 15 minutes about the weight, for a frequency of 2-3 hours maximum.
bar available, I have a 100 lt compressor with ps 11 bar. (although I have to control it, because I turned it off 2 years ago working and now I don't understand why, no more).

apart from this, if you need more ask me, because alone I don't know what to tell you that can be useful.
Finally I noticed that there are various types of cylinders (iso xxxx, vdma, etc.) I have no idea what they mean, so I asked for general help!

Thank you very much

Hi.
I do not know the function of your equipment, but keep in mind that to lift 200kg with an air cylinder.. the risk is the spring effect. I mean, you don't have a fluid movement to raise 200kg, but you can go off and leave all of a sudden.
I recommend a hydraulic cylinder, but clearly it can't work with a simple compressor.
Iso vdma codes. etc. etc. are the characteristics of the cylinder and its seals.
a cylinder ø100 at 7bar lifts, in thrust, theoretically, about 500kg

 

[MBT]

hello reb_bl and mbt, a thank you for the interventions.
Then,
for how it is mounted I attach you a quick design I made.
for how it works, it must lift and lower every 15 minutes about the weight, for a frequency of 2-3 hours maximum.
bar available, I have a 100 lt compressor with ps 11 bar. (although I have to control it, because I turned it off 2 years ago working and now I don't understand why, no more).

from the design made, you do not have to lift 200 kg, but many less!
about pressure, although the compressor arrives at 11 bar calculation is generally made with 5-6 bar for static applications and 3-4 bar for dynamic applications
However, it is victorious reason that the pneumatic cylinders are not the maximum in terms of precision and softness of operation. In addition to the spring effect at the start, a spring effect may occur once the load is lifted.
Remember, however, if you want to try to keep it at least a bit in place, to use lock valves at least on the side where it weighs. otherwise, if the position is to be maintained accurately, look for cylinders with stem block

 

[sampom]

from the design made, you do not have to lift 200 kg, but many less!

Um... sure? (I ask only er.:biggrin
how do you consider the load in that case? with application at the center of length?
compared to that depends where it puts the stem attack (also to decide piston run/opening angle); the more you approach the fulcrum (cerniere) the greater the strength to exercise.

greetings
Marco:smile:

 

[reb_bl]

more than the doubt that still remains to me is when you tell me about the 200mm race that if "attached" to the cylinder, the stroke of the lifted piece for absurd could be 5 mm.
then, only 1 cylinder? Do you have to push or return?
The load would seem evenly distributed, right?

As for the cylinders, it depends on the budget you have, lately I've worked with the pneumax cylinders, which are not evil, clearly I'm not festo. If you take a iso cylinder it will cost you less than a cylinder with antirotation or with passing stem, it always depends what you have to do.
I see you work in the dairy field, can you use oil?
The more data you give us the better we can help you, clearly if you can provide it!
healthy healthy

 

[vale61]

Hi.
I do not know the function of your equipment, but keep in mind that to lift 200kg with an air cylinder. . the risk is the spring effect. I mean, you don't have a fluid movement to raise 200kg, but you can go off and leave all of a sudden.
I recommend a hydraulic cylinder, but clearly it can't work with a simple compressor.
Iso vdma codes. etc. etc. are the characteristics of the cylinder and its seals.
a cylinder ø100 at 7bar lifts, in thrust, theoretically, about 500kg

I agree.
It's the air problem that's compressible.
Bye-bye.

 

[vale61]

then look at the security speech.
What happens to 200 kili?
If you don't need great precision and you have space for not 2 cylinders?
Bye-bye.

 

[Danlau]

more than the doubt that still remains to me is when you tell me about the 200mm race that if "attached" to the cylinder, the stroke of the lifted piece for absurd could be 5 mm.

healthy, the cylinder run is 200mm, but the machine gets less. I give you the attachment with the lifting measures, to make you understand better.

then, only 1 cylinder? Do you have to push or return?

I want I can also put 2 cylinders, placed at the 2 sides of the machine in parallel.

The load would seem evenly distributed, right?

the load is distributed more or less evenly, more in the central part, in fact I wanted to place the cylinder in the center.

As for the cylinders, it depends on the budget you have, lately I've worked with the pneumax cylinders, which are not evil, clearly I'm not festo.

my budget is quite limited, within 100 for 1 from 200 dan, in fact I had seen on rs-online of acceptable prices (one random visa is this http://it.rs-online.com/web/search/searchbrowseaction.html?method=getproduct&r=2639004).

If you take a iso cylinder it will cost you less than a cylinder with antirotation or with passing stem, it always depends what you have to do.

The machine is a kneader. on the side I lift, the two kneading arms descend. forward the fixed part, in correspondence of the arms, there is the tub of the dough mounted on a track. with the lifting the arms of the tank are extracted, so as to free the tank, which is moved laterally, and tipped to download the dough.
I need a cylinder that gently lifts the head, keeps it lifted while emptying and recharges the dough, and then gently lower the head. I don't care if the lifting and the descent are not constantly uniform, or if while holding it up there are small shocks.
the important thing is that it does not leave violently, that they are not violent lifting, descent and end of race. and that there is no risk that you hit yourself while she is relieved, it would be dangerous.

I see you work in the dairy field, can you use oil?

currently the machine is equipped with hydraulic system, including the piston. However, since it is little hygienic and little sanitized, in addition it is to replace the hydraulic orbital motor and perhaps even the pump, I decided to directly couple the asynchronous motor of the pump to the reducer.
so I have an electrical equipment, which is more comfortable and hygenic, but I still have to fix the lifting. I do not want to grab another pump and controls for the piston, which however being placed near the dough is not the maximum, at least to clean.[/QUOTE]I hope this information will help.
Thank you very much for your help!

 

[MBT]

then look at the security speech.
What happens to 200 kili?

the lock valves also do as safety.

If you don't need great precision and you have space for not 2 cylinders?
Bye-bye.

could actually be an idea :finger:

 

[Danlau]

then look at the security speech.
What happens to 200 kili?
If you don't need great precision and you have space for not 2 cylinders?
Bye-bye.

hi vale, you could actually put two of them. but there are no security to put that block the cylinders once lifted?

 

[Danlau]

the lock valves also do as safety.


could actually be an idea :finger:

I don't have time to answer that another post comes!
So we start planning 2 pistons instead of 1, and with lock valves, right?

 

[MBT]

I don't have time to answer that another post comes!
So we start planning 2 pistons instead of 1, and with lock valves, right?

If space allows you, it is a solution
the lock valves, attention, act as safety valves provided that they are mounted directly on the cylinder mouth, without interposition of any tube
ensure that, in case of lack of pressure or valve avary, the cylinder does not fall, but nothing can against the spring effect.
for that you need the stele block, but it is not considered a security device, at least as far as I know.

 

[reb_bl]

si healthy healthy, the cylinder run is 200mm, but the machine gets less. I give you the attachment with the lifting measures, to make you understand better.

Let's start with the playful part :biggrin: healthy would be a way to say goodbye to me:biggrin:

my budget is quite limited, within 100 for 1 from 200 dan, in fact I had seen on rs-online of acceptable prices (one random visa is this http://it.rs-online.com/web/search/searchbrowseaction.html?method=getproduct&r=2639004).

let rs lose, is valid and fast, but also face. ask some industrial supplier to make you do 2 prices, especially with the lean cows that you can get a "better" price! ! !

the car [....] It would be dangerous.

as you say it could also be good 2 cylinders, did you think maybe to put a lever with twist bar to push together both cylinders? (it's an idea thrown there, maybe it's obvious

Currently [...] so low of the pulire.

various safety and machinery regulations refer you to those who know more and maybe in the industry, because I noticed that there are strong peculiarities from industry to industry.

If you need more tips, ask!

healthy:biggrin:

 

[Danlau]

hi reb_bl, if you write me healthy signature type you make me believe it is your name!
Listen, among all the things you've written to me, I finally feel like I'm always at the point of departure! First I knew I wanted to put 1 cylinder, now I know I want to put 2, that's all!

let rs lose, is valid and fast, but also face. ask some industrial supplier to make you do 2 prices, especially with the lean cows that you can get a "better" price! ! !

I contacted a provider of the bologna area, he mentioned that the spending would be around 200 - 300 euros, and he advised me to turn to someone in my area, because of the assistance.
in the area I found no more or less specific supplier, so I saw on internet rs-online with acceptable prices.
If you have any name of suppliers to give me maybe I contact them, because not being in the industry I don't know who to turn, if not to rs. Then it turns out I take someone randomly, which takes weeks to get 1 quote, and eventually shoots me high prices!

as you say it could also be good 2 cylinders, did you think maybe to put a lever with twist bar to push together both cylinders? (it's an idea thrown there, maybe it's obvious

first you should explain to me what leverism is with twist bar!

However, thanks for the help, but if you helped me design everything, from the types of cylinders with the characteristics to buy, to the other things and accessories to make them work, I would be grateful!

Hi.

 

[MBT]

but to do so we need drawings.. .
for suppliers, the sites I have shown you should also have local retailers
contact also pneumax, which makes cylinders from the contained price
also because besides the cylinders you need valves, hoses, fittings.. .
and that's hard to design on a forum. you can give directions, but then you have to see... based on so many things.
so on two feet I can tell you that:
1) the piston force (or pistons) the calculations as follows:
given
q= weight of the moving thing
l1 = distance from the center of the thigh to the hinges
l2 = distance from the hinges to the working axis of the piston
It's not like it's not like
you have to check in which position you have the worst condition. because l2 is always horizontal (parallel to the ground) while l2 obviously varies while the piston works

2) the diameter calculations as I explained to you, knowing the strength and pressure (stay on the 5 bars for calculation)
3) use if you can cylinder iso 6431, they are easy to find and therefore cost little
4) informed if, given the application, need stainless steel cylinders for hygienic reasons

 

[PierArg]

Good morning to all,
I would feel like saying that the pneumatic solution is the best in your case.

eye to eye hygiene regulations because you are in the food industry. if we want to be lazy also the compressor must be "suitable" to food applications.
the reason is due to the fact that the air supplying the compressor is contaminated with oil particles (of the compressor).

Of course what I'm telling you is "excess of zeal" but with the food industry you don't joke.
try to inform you, maybe at the asl of your commune.

 

[reb_bl]

and that's hard to design on a forum.

Exactly, we can give you some tips, but the project can't do it to you, even because despite the fact that there are many fine heads in this forum, it could be that it jumps out a mistake and if it doesn't work?

the reason is due to the fact that the air supplying the compressor is contaminated with oil particles (of the compressor).

It's not too much of a zeal, indeed... That's why I invited people to listen to.

as mbt suggests if you take cylinders you will also need: hinge rear attachment, anterior spherical junction, sensors, bases, valves, air attacks, tubes (suitable according to the cylinder), air treatment (specific magari) also for this I advised you to entrust yourself to an area representative, who will surely suggest you better according to the real needs.

mbt did (always)note (also you mbt, you're too pignolo :biggrin that you'll also have to dispel the forces according to the angles you have, according to that you'll start having a more correct idea of the cylinder to take.

Why did you decide that the race should be 200mm? the cylinder before had this race?

... to say then I hold a correction factor for the air of 0.8 because not always maybe you have full power 6bar theorists from the net, mbt told you to deal with 5 bars... As you see, there are so many things to take into account, I didn't seem to be yet at the beginning: