what skills (base) of the mechanical designer/designer?

[MauroTC]

what skills should you expect from those who want to cover the position of a mechanical designer/designer?
do you also find that the general level has fallen over the decades, but a little in all the figures, from the skilled worker (but it will be difficult to find) to the engineer?

Quali le competenze (base) del disegnatore/progettista meccanico?

Premessa: si, sono due figure complementari ma diverse; non è facile nascere direttamente come progettista, soprattutto per chi come me, viene dal diploma (perito ITIS); diciamo che si può ambire a nascere, lavorativamente, come disegnatore (essenzialmente) e “morire” come progettista..

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[Kaji]

I personally believe that I am a designer with skills and knowledge less than what a person expects from a figure of my experience and my position, sometimes I feel embarrassed to read your discussions that should be part of my luggage instead of being Arabic to me.

But I think that the mediocre technical employees like me are still a higher level than other types of employees because at least we "fix" our errors, in the end our shortcomings and disrespects arrive to the comb when you mount the machine and there are problems and there is no downloadbarle of which are Olympic samples the purchases that have always way to blame suppliers, technical employees etc. etc.

said this I believe that the main evil of metalworking companies, especially those masters, is the lack of meritocracy, for example I find myself from outside in a paradoxical situation I occupy the place of a designer who alone and in a few months has created a machine that others could not even imagine and direct with great skill all the designers, even those just arrived like me, and managed to make it build and deliver in times.

I am the only survivor and unfortunately a prisoner of the situation because although obsteggiato from the management of the company I am not sent away, and therefore I cannot leave because I would cause a damage to my study to which I am bound because they would place me halfway from other parts.

I therefore believe that the main evil and decay is the lack of meritocracy, so much to give you an example of an episode so incredible that I could not be credible, last Monday morning I had to go 4 times to warehouse because the chief warehouseman, relative of the management, has repeatedly argued that the uni 5931 corresponds to the hexagonal screws.

 

[meccanicamg]

I personally believe that I am a designer with skills and knowledge less than what a person expects from a figure of my experience and my position, sometimes I feel embarrassed to read your discussions that should be part of my luggage instead of being Arabic to me.

But I think that the mediocre technical employees like me are still a higher level than other types of employees because at least we "fix" our errors, in the end our shortcomings and disrespects arrive to the comb when you mount the machine and there are problems and there is no downloadbarle of which are Olympic samples the purchases that have always way to blame suppliers, technical employees etc. etc.

said this I believe that the main evil of metalworking companies, especially those masters, is the lack of meritocracy, for example I find myself from outside in a paradoxical situation I occupy the place of a designer who alone and in a few months has created a machine that others could not even imagine and direct with great skill all the designers, even those just arrived like me, and managed to make it build and deliver in times.

I am the only survivor and unfortunately a prisoner of the situation because although obsteggiato from the management of the company I am not sent away, and therefore I cannot leave because I would cause a damage to my study to which I am bound because they would place me halfway from other parts.

I therefore believe that the main evil and decay is the lack of meritocracy, so much to give you an example of an episode so incredible that I could not be credible, last Monday morning I had to go 4 times to warehouse because the chief warehouseman, relative of the management, has repeatedly argued that the uni 5931 corresponds to the hexagonal screws.

They all know them with din 912... but it was enough that he looked on google... a 50€ cell phone will have had it in his pocket...no?

 

[Error404]

@kaji I understand your speech and share it. I feel like you in your own situation. I find myself playing an important role, but I don't feel like I'm at the level. But I think your speech goes a little off topic.

to answer @ maurotc, I share the speech that the level has dropped, however, because perhaps the question has increased. Now the sectors are well specific and find someone suitable for your need, already trained and operational is difficult.
I would also like to add, and not by criticism, that Italian education is not of great help, especially if you leave an itis. the teaching of course is very general and we always specialize during the working years.

During my working years I noticed a lot of difference, which I initially stupidly ignored, between designer and designer.

the designer is a figure that can read and make technical drawings. nowadays obviously should be able to exploit a 3d modeling software. should be able to assign the right dimensional and geometric tolerances, also knowing all degrees of roughness.
Then, I see that it is not required in work questions, but I think it should also be able to use the main measuring instruments to detect the size of the pieces.
in most of the job offers I read, companies look for designers in possession of a degree, but for my opinion, I would say that it is an excessive title to cover the "simple" role of designer.

the designer, who not necessarily plays the role as a designer, is a more complex figure. the problem is as reported before being there various sectors, everyone should be able to design what he is working on. a mechanical designer who works in a company that produces details that are static at work, but who are subjected perhaps to atmospheric phenomena, must have different skills than one who designs pieces with dynamic stresses.
certainly this second role can be better covered by a figure with a laura, but I am sure that experience counts a lot in work and that even a graduate can be able to achieve the degree of designer without too much difficulty.
After this prelude, I would say that a designer (generic), should be able to design from scratch mechanical details, calculating the minimum sections necessary according to the material used and the type of stress that undergoes the piece. Obviously there are many other skills that should cover, I wanted to stay a lot on the generic.

 

[stevie]

Are we talking about designers or designers?
completely different figures, which then in the (modesto) Italian entrepreneurial fabric are often confused is another speech.


as to the poor technical level compared to the past I am not so certain, it depends a lot on case to case.
what is certain is that the necessary knowledge in recent decades is of much increased, just think about everything that takes behind the use of applications that fall within the category cae.
the technical professions in Italy have always been diminished, also and above all at the wage level, and now this is paid with a disinnamoramento of the young towards the technical professions.
If on the one hand this is a positive fact, because companies will necessarily have to recognize higher wages to the few who remain, on the other hand, could lead to an impoverishment of the already poor Italian entrepreneurial fabric.

 

[Stan9411]

the technical professions in Italy have always been diminished, also and above all at the wage level, and now this is paid with a disinnamoramento of the young towards the technical professions.
If on the one hand this is a positive fact, because companies will necessarily have to recognize higher wages to the few who remain, on the other hand, could lead to an impoverishment of the already poor Italian entrepreneurial fabric.

Do you have data to support this yoursis?
I have attended the Milan Polytechnic and monthly continue to receive newsletters from the university that keeps the alumni informed about the advances of the athene. I go to memory, but from what I read, the number of subscribers constantly increases year by year, with a decent growth even of the pink quotas.

tant is that one of the big problems is overcrowding common areas and classrooms.

In fact, young people are not disinterested in technical matters.
What I see rather is that companies seem to not realize the direction the world is taking. apprentices, internships .. call them as you wish.. At the end? 1200-1400 euronetti/month for at least 2-3 years. and a two-room apartment in bologna costs 800 euros per month excluding expenses, not counting that you claimed (your family) university costs for a minimum of 5 years.

other than higher wages.

the result is that a young graduate engineer, prefers to apply for program management roles or sales, where he will use a 10% of what he studied, but will have better economic returns and career prospects

 

[stevie]

the fact that you graduate in engineering does not imply the fact that you undertake a career in the technical sector, as you yourself implicitly admit at the end of your intervention, saying that many graduates undertake careers in "management" and sales...the young people of now are smarter than we were... they understood that the technician besides so many responsibilities and heartburns does not take home and throw themselves in alternative careers, and they do well add! ! !

Don't let yourself be embalmed by university statistics...the fact that engineering is always a "designed" faculty is linked to the fact that a graduate in engineering is a figure that goes well a little for everything, very flexible, adaptable to the needs of the market, but how many of the graduates end up designing? less and less...

 

[czar]

a designer is for me a figure ranging from "junior" to "senior" in graduation-35 years. in 2023 he must know how to use the sw 3d, more than one is better, know the technical design well and know where to find the information necessary to produce a correct document and avoid being laughed behind, he must know how to use the classical measuring instruments and to know how to use I intend to understand how to measure an object that is not able to read a micrometer or an examiner or a comparison (ccm is a competence from test operators) and over the years will have to refine the skills about As years pass, he becomes a designer, who will be able to measure what he designs (i.e. to make sure that it costs as little as possible and hard as required) and become familiar with the various technologies and materials, organizing his work creating the tools to be efficient. It takes years and years. It's a shitty job. This has already been written. pay seems to depend on many factors that almost never deal with mastery and skills, but in the end it only counts to be able to do their own interests in this respect: you can be good designers and be exploited, bad employees and be extra-paid, or people with head on the shoulders who know what they do and get paid what they have to do and if there are no conditions, you take courage to two hands and you change air without listening to the usual fairy tales that "the crisis is out there".

 

[MauroTC]

I exhume my old discussion, because today, for the first time after almost 35 years of activity, I have happened drawings with this note (see image).that in part "responds" to my question: if this is resolved, part of the skill of the designer (make complete drawings, exhaustive for the purpose of realization and possibly without errors) are "automatically" resolved!

Then maybe I'm the one who's surprised, given the way so "explicit", when I'm myself asking the customers why we have to build parts "if you give me also the 3d I won't break you asking for the odds missing".
only that this is a new client and could not know of my "discounty", his initiative (or reading of thought ).).

Did you happen?

 

[Vittorio]

It happened and I do it both for our internal use and for work done outside.
we, but also our external suppliers, work with a cam and therefore needs a 3d model.
then I make a quoted minimalist 2d design only with regard to specific imperative tolerances.
for the rest I put the writing: Missing quotas refer to model 3d and general tolerances specified on cartiglio 2d.

 

[cacciatorino]

I exhume my old discussion, because today, for the first time after almost 35 years of activity, I have happened drawings with this note (see image).View attachment 68618that in part "responds" to my question: if this is resolved, part of the skill of the designer (make complete drawings, exhaustive for the purpose of realization and possibly without errors) are "automatically" resolved!

Then maybe I'm the one who's surprised, given the way so "explicit", when I'm myself asking the customers why we have to build parts "if you give me also the 3d I won't break you asking for the odds missing".
only that this is a new client and could not know of my "discounty", his initiative (or reading of thought ).).

Did you happen?

Usually it is made for the pieces (or parts of the pieces) that would be impossible or counterproductive to quota in 2d. typically are double warp pieces result of molding. You don't do it for laziness as you may be alluding.

 

[DrBarde]

Usually it is made for the pieces (or parts of the pieces) that would be impossible or counterproductive to quota in 2d. typically are double warp pieces result of molding. You don't do it for laziness as you may be alluding.

I fully agree, the piece must be quoted to be built without the help of documents such as .step or similar. The technical table must speak. less than very special exceptions.

 

[meccanicamg]

It happened and I do it both for our internal use and for work done outside.
we, but also our external suppliers, work with a cam and therefore needs a 3d model.
then I make a quoted minimalist 2d design only with regard to specific imperative tolerances.
for the rest I put the writing: Missing quotas refer to model 3d and general tolerances specified on cartiglio 2d.

in some companies, where they produce products in which they are not obliged to make design to the customer is not abandoning the card and therefore also drawings 2d.
some new statups have already made only a drawing of assembly to give to the customer and everything else turns internally to the company with steps for the processing and with the viewer mount the components. slowly the paper will disappear if we are good... a little as the tecnigraph disappeared.

 

[MauroTC]

in some companies, where they produce products in which they are not obliged to make design to the customer is not abandoning the card and therefore also drawings 2d.
some new statups have already made only a drawing of assembly to give to the customer and everything else turns internally to the company with steps for the processing and with the viewer mount the components. slowly the paper will disappear if we are good... a little as the tecnigraph disappeared.

Okay, the card agrees to disappear, at least in the office and in certain activities where the matching cad-cam works... except that at the moment in the workshop they still want it; the environment (almost dirty) still does not allow the use of other technologies.
this despite also the pdf or dxf that is should be done "good".

 

[MauroTC]

Usually it is made for the pieces (or parts of the pieces) that would be impossible or counterproductive to quota in 2d. typically are double warp pieces result of molding. You don't do it for laziness as you may be alluding.

Yes, for those I agree, I do it myself, putting the note on the drawing: "given the complexity of the forms to be achieved, the cutting templates in dxf/dwg format will be provided."

Perhaps more than laziness I would call it almost more incompetence. . .
There are some useless ones, apart from the missing quotas that would not allow it to be realized, while, in fact, there are some essential ones. . .

 

[falonef]

an interesting article:design tricks: management of tolerances in 3d models

 

[falonef]

the future will be the quotation of model 3d.
we with catia v5 are working on it but it is not simple...