withdrawal contract from ptc retailer

[pmcstudio]

Good morning.
in July 2013 I purchased a ptc creo essential ii license.
in these days I arrived an invoice of about 4keuro per year maintenance fee 2014/15.
to my complaints the dealer replied that in the contract there is a paragraph in which they say
that my right of withdrawal had to exercise it 90gg before the expiry with registered letter.
so it is considered tacitly renewed.
I personally consider this harassment clause and unprofessional.
I have never received a maintenance offer, so they can have written any amount
in their invoice.
In my case, I say I was unconscious, but in case there is a material impossibility
to withdraw (e.g. sickness, travel or other) can you force a person to purchase against his own will?
by giving your opinions, considerations and advice. Thank you. Luca.

 

[tecnico_plast]

It all seems very strange. . .
the figure is abnormal, and usually you should receive the offer for renewal of the maintenance fee.
try to contact directly ptc...

 

[Roby74]

Good morning, the same thing is happening to me.
in August 2013 I bought a ptc license for creo essential ii and I just got an invoice of about 4000 euros for the maintenance fee, without ever having received an offer for only renewal of the assistance.
By calling the dealer, I was answered the same thing that is that there is a paragraph in which we talk about tacit renewal.
at this point I think that the dealer concerned is the same as pmc studio. the initials of the commercial that followed me are a.p.
that I know, there must always be, first an offer, then in case of acceptance, my signature and to follow the invoice.
in any case it is a cheap dealer who uses subdole methods to scam people.
If anyone has any advice to give me, I agree! !
Thank you all!

roberto

 

[stevie]

Good morning, the same thing is happening to me.
in August 2013 I bought a ptc license for creo essential ii and I just got an invoice of about 4000 euros for the maintenance fee, without ever having received an offer for only renewal of the assistance.
By calling the dealer, I was answered the same thing that is that there is a paragraph in which we talk about tacit renewal.
at this point I think that the dealer concerned is the same as pmc studio. the initials of the commercial that followed me are a.p.
that I know, there must always be, first an offer, then in case of acceptance, my signature and to follow the invoice.
in any case it is a cheap dealer who uses subdole methods to scam people.
If anyone has any advice to give me, I agree! !
Thank you all!

roberto

Is it probably the new ptc strategy to cope with the collapse of market shares? . . .
the only advice is to send a recommendation in which you ask "keys", otherwise proceed by legal means denouncing the attempted fraud/extortion since the contract is unclear
on the forum then I think there are very "close" people to ptc, they have nothing to say?

 

[Roby74]

thank you for the stevie board!!!, certainly I will do so.
I have no intention of paying 4000 euros without even fighting!

Is it probably the new ptc strategy to cope with the collapse of market shares? . . .
the only advice is to send a recommendation in which you ask "keys", otherwise proceed by legal means denouncing the attempted fraud/extortion since the contract is unclear
on the forum then I think there are very "close" people to ptc, they have nothing to say?

 

[PierArg]

I would quote the name and surname (or social reason) of the seller.

If people work in a mean way, it is right that the necessary actions should be taken to prevent unprofessional behaviour but, above all, unethical.

If things are really as you have told, from the contractual point of view they may also be in reason but from the conceptual point of view they remain str...i.

 

[pmcstudio]

Good morning.
Can you put the dealer's ninth? ..without incurring in other stumbles.. .
an answer from the moderator

 

[stevie]

I would quote the name and surname (or social reason) of the seller.

If people work in a mean way, it is right that the necessary actions should be taken to prevent unprofessional behaviour but, above all, unethical.

If things are really as you have told, from the contractual point of view they may also be in reason but from the conceptual point of view they remain str...i.

I do this, but they could make a complaint for disfamation, and roby74 would pass from reason to wrong.
It is good to send recommended with return receipt in which to emphasize that the maintenance contract had not been explicitly undersigned by the data subject and therefore asks for the cancellation.
as reported by the civil code

v vices of consent
Articles 1427 and following of the Civil Code allow you to request the cancellation of a contract in three hypotheses:
• if you signed it by mistake ( error);
• if they have forced you to sign it (violence);
• if they have radiated (dolo).
It's one of the reasons why fraudsters, beyond threats, will hesitate to drag you into court to get paid: They do not want to risk that the contracts used to ask for the quarters are judged as they deserve.

in this case it would seem to be the hypothesis of dolo (raggiro).

it is useful to take a look at this page
http://www.federmot.it/iurismot/penale/tutelacons.html

 

[marcof]

Good morning.
in July 2013 I purchased a ptc creo essential ii license.
in these days I arrived an invoice of about 4keuro per year maintenance fee 2014/15.
to my complaints the dealer replied that in the contract there is a paragraph in which they say
that my right of withdrawal had to exercise it 90gg before the expiry with registered letter.
so it is considered tacitly renewed.

Good morning, the same thing is happening to me.
in August 2013 I bought a ptc license for creo essential ii and I just got an invoice of about 4000 euros for the maintenance fee, without ever having received an offer for only renewal of the assistance.
By calling the dealer, I was answered the same thing that is that there is a paragraph in which we talk about tacit renewal.
at this point I think that the dealer concerned is the same as pmc studio.

What I do not think they can do is to invoice a greater amount than that of the previous year without communicating the increase and without motivating it. there will be also list prices not?. if they asked you 4000€ for renewal can you know how much you paid the previous year?
to me it happened that they sent me an invoice of full-listed renewal (even in my case silent but with a month notice for the cancellation) he said that I would pay the discounted figure of the previous year and not a cent more and the thing resolved without problems, but when last year I canceled the I did in the terms previewed from the contract.
regarding the tacit renewal is bad to say, but if there is clear written in the contract you have signed I know that there is very little to do.

 

[Roby74]

other problems, sincerely I don't want to, so I will limit myself to the initial only of the commercial that followed me and the company for which he works that is "f.s"
if someone wants name and surname and company, contact me privately and I have no problem providing it to avoid any other scams to colleagues in the industry.
It is good for these people to be "burned land" around!!

 

[Roby74]

I bought the package so composed last year:
1) reconfiguration to create essential i which includes the maintenance contract for 12 months
2) alignment creo advanced assembly extension which also includes the maintenance contract for 12 months.
the signing of the contract has never been mentioned maintenance for the following years and I have no list (also because they are private and are only provided to retailers).
to me there never came any communication where you talk about figures for the only maintenance contract for both 2 modules purchased.
The company sent me the bill of 4000 euros, but I have no feedback to assess how much actually should be the right amount for maintenance alone.

What I do not think they can do is to invoice a greater amount than that of the previous year without communicating the increase and without motivating it. there will be also list prices not?. if they asked you 4000€ for renewal can you know how much you paid the previous year?
to me it happened that they sent me an invoice of full-listed renewal (even in my case silent but with a month notice for the cancellation) he said that I would pay the discounted figure of the previous year and not a cent more and the thing resolved without problems, but when last year I canceled the I did in the terms previewed from the contract.
regarding the tacit renewal is bad to say, but if there is clear written in the contract you have signed I know that there is very little to do.

 

[PierArg]

I agree with stevie however there will also be a legal way to tell an event (making names) and evaluate the service received.

Right?

among other things if those who tell the event is also a person who really tried the service there is not even diffamation.
simple judgment of a customer.
The disfamation is when it comes to sparing.

 

[marcof]

It is good to send recommended with return receipt in which to emphasize that the maintenance contract had not been explicitly undersigned by the data subject and therefore asks for the cancellation.

e, it must be that it has not been signed, and until now they have not said if they have signed it and if that tacit renewal clause is present. I think there are both signatures and the clause otherwise the dealer would have provided the software. .

Articles 1427 and following of the Civil Code allow you to request the cancellation of a contract in three hypotheses:
• if you signed it by mistake ( error);
• if they have forced you to sign it (violence);
• if they have radiated (dolo).

I think you do it too simple, and if in the contract it is clearly written that the renewal is silent if you go to court they make you a sit like a pair.
I would say that the dolo and violence in this case are not standing at all.
for the error explain to me something:

1. sign a contract for the purchase of a software and the first year of assistance
2. in the contract it is written that the renewal is silent after cancellation 90 days before expiry
3. you paid both the software and the first year of assistance
4. use the software and services related to the assistance you paid for a year by profiting from the work done with the software itself.

Well, try to prove in court that points 1, 2, 3, 4 are the result of a mistake.. .

Come on, we're serious.

 

[Roby74]

No no! I agree perfectly with you marcof.
I'm not making it simple at all. It will be hard to solve it.
I signed a software and maintenance contract for 12 months, but what I'm asking is whether it's right for me to come to invoice a maintenance fee for another 12 months when I've never been sent a cost offer for this. if this had happened for time (20 days before the useful term to send the cancellation recommendation as mentioned in the contract), I would have looked at the amount, talked to the retailer to bargain a "wealthy discount", made in time to make me make other offers from other retailers, and then only at this point, if I let expire the 20 days without giving any answer (in my opinion) should have value the clause of the tacit renewal.
the seller then could have asked me quietly 10000 euros, so much I have no feedback to understand if the requested amount and already billed is right or wrong and I did not have the opportunity to inform me from other retailers.

attention: I use the software I'm regularly paying (I'm not questioning the initial contract), the invoiced amount is now for another 12 months of only assistance from August 2014 to August 2015)

 

[pmcstudio]

on the card is clear, there are 90 days of withdrawal, but 20 days before you had to receive an offer.
never received.
Now I get an invoice, where I don't know what I bought.

did I only purchase the power to update the licenses?
Have I purchased a course?
did I purchase telephone assistance?
Do I have to trust what the dealer tells me?

I think you should name it, even for respect of the other 4 retailers that maybe behave correctly.
Because by doing so, they force me to stay with them another year, taking away from others the chance to compete.
(typical way of doing predominant positions in Italy)

I personally follow the management of the office, you put that 90gg before I get a bump, my family find themselves paying
something not desired. Who of you would pay?

Moreover we put that 89gg before there are a new potential supplier that makes me a much lower price, for the same thing,
In this way, I can't do anything anymore, who of you would accept?

It does not seem correct to me the clause, although clear on the card.

I wanted to do this discussion to understand if you can solve the matter by applying the reason, but it must also serve those who read us to better protect themselves, to go to read the tiny words well and anticipate the dealer on the possible tense tranello.

Besides, I invite retailers, if there are others who read to remove these "gaboles" because so doing they work badly, they treat the customer badly, not as a value but as a chicken to break the first distraction.
I look forward to your opinions. Greetings luca.

 

[marcof]

I bought the package so composed last year:
1) reconfiguration to create essential i which includes the maintenance contract for 12 months
2) alignment creo advanced assembly extension which also includes the maintenance contract for 12 months.
the signing of the contract has never been talked about maintenance

You didn't sign a pralate contract. You signed a written contract. Did you check what it says and what it says? for pure curiosity (why can we do little) can you post that specific part?

to me there never came any communication where you talk about figures for the only maintenance contract for both 2 modules purchased.

I don't know how ptc contracts do, but in my case there was the number for each sigola entry, i.e. swx, edrawing, maintenance contract. in last year's invoice you had a unique amount for creo, the advanced assembly module and the two related maintenance? I feel weird.

The company sent me the bill of 4000 euros, but I have no feedback to assess how much actually should be the right amount for maintenance alone.

ask the ptc how much the maintenance list is, but above all look at how much you paid last year. I understand the madness for forgetting to cancel the renewal of assistance, but it seems to me that you are putting the wagon in front of the oxen not even knowing how much you paid last year the same service.

 

[Roby74]

That's the problem. I have no distinct voices in my contract like you're telling me. I have a unique price of software including assistance and only, therefore impossible for me to forget the 2 things. however the price I paid was 4800+iva (all). now for a year of maintenance alone I am billed 4000 euros?? ? ?

You didn't sign a pralate contract. You signed a written contract. Did you check what it says and what it says? for pure curiosity (why can we do little) can you post that specific part?



I don't know how ptc contracts do, but in my case there was the number for each sigola entry, i.e. swx, edrawing, maintenance contract. in last year's invoice you had a unique amount for creo, the advanced assembly module and the two related maintenance? I feel weird.



ask the ptc how much the maintenance list is, but above all look at how much you paid last year. I understand the madness for forgetting to cancel the renewal of assistance, but it seems to me that you are putting the wagon in front of the oxen not even knowing how much you paid last year the same service.

 

[marcof]

on the card is clear, there are 90 days of withdrawal, but 20 days before you had to receive an offer.
never received.

in the contract is specified that the validity of the clause for automatic renewal is subordinate to the receipt of the offer 20 days before the term of 90?
maybe on the forum there is someone expert on contracts, there are definitely retailers, so you could post the contract text taking care to remove any reference to the seller. I would go slowly to give chechesh scammer on a public forum.

did I only purchase the power to update the licenses?
Have I purchased a course?
did I purchase telephone assistance?
Do I have to trust what the dealer tells me?

What is written in the invoice, just the amount?

I think you should name it, even for respect of the other 4 retailers that maybe behave correctly.
Because by doing so, they force me to stay with them another year, taking away from others the chance to compete.

I think you have to be sure that you are right, because it is not credible that you have forced yourself to sign anything with violence or deceit, while I believe that the two situations below have occurred:

1. you have not read well what you have signed
2. you forgot to give a cancellation as clearly provided by the contract you signed

ah even if you were right there is also to be careful to make names because here you are giving your version of the facts without them being able to fight.

Moreover we put that 89gg before there are a new potential supplier that makes me a much lower price, for the same thing,
In this way, I can't do anything anymore, who of you would accept?

Unfortunately you accepted when you signed.

It does not seem correct to me the clause, although clear on the card.

It is not a matter of fairness. It's like accepting a telephone fee for two years worth, in case you change operator before, the receipt of what you would have paid in two years. They tell you, the blind, there's little to complain.

Let's understand, far from me to be the office defender of software houses, let alone for retailers, but in this case it seems to me that you have few margins of manoeuvre without risking an infinite containment.

 

[Roby74]

I don't know if you see the image attached.
the offending paragraph is this:
art.8 – duration of the contract and silent renewal.the contract will have the duration of the order. for maintenance contracts, administration and assistance, saves the different pattuition possibly contained in the order, the duration is meant of a solar year to make time from the date of subscription of the contract, term that will be tacitly renewed unless the customer cancels at least 90 days before the expiration to half registered letter addressed to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. the cancellation can also be partial and therefore only concern some products and/or services of the original order. in case of renewal xxxxxxxxxxxxx will be able to update the annual fee and own rates, in such case, so that these are operational for the contracts in course, xxxxxxxxxxxxxx will be required to communicate to the customer at least 20 days before the expiration of the useful term for the cancellation. in case of renewal will be instead always due to xxxxxxxxxxxx automatic increments of the correspondent pairs to the increase percentage of the index istat relative to the year spent.

 

[marcof]

I don't know if you see the image attached.

You can see but in fact you don't understand what realignment is. Maybe you did an update from an older version of pro-e? in any case the maintenance item is included in the individual digits and you have no way to understand how much the alignment costs and how much the maintenance intervenes some prt riveted that I want to do it or can do it. I suggest you write a post on the forum of creo by posting this thread or moving from there from the moderator all this thread

the offending paragraph is this:
art.8 – duration of the contract and silent renewal.the contract will have the duration of the order. for maintenance contracts, administration and assistance, saves the different pattuition possibly contained in the order, the duration is meant of a solar year to make time from the date of subscription of the contract, term that will be tacitly renewed unless the customer cancels at least 90 days before the expiration to half registered letter addressed to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. the cancellation can also be partial and therefore only concern some products and/or services of the original order. in case of renewal xxxxxxxxxxxxx will be able to update the annual canon and own tariffs, in such case, so that these are operational for the contracts in course, xxxxxxxxxxxxxx will be required to communicate to the customer almenno 20 days before the expiration of the useful term for the cancellation. in case of renewal will be instead always due to xxxxxxxxxxxx automatic increments of the correspondent pairs to the increase percentage of the index istat relative to the year spent.

to me it seems clear: if the dealer wants to update the rates you must communicate it within the famous 20 days before the deadline for the cancellation, otherwise the istat parameters for the price update apply.
the only thing you can do is check if you have applied a current price list or is increased. As I predict that it will be the full list price you will have to pay but if I were you I would ask for the discount threatening to write to them and to e.p.c. to the ptc that, given the economic treatment they reserved you (full list and no discount) next year with the caxxo that you will renew the assistance with them and you will find a var more.... var :smile:
Have you ever seen that they come to more mild advice?