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volkswagen e le emissioni

  • Thread starter Thread starter cacciatorino
  • Start date Start date

cosa fareste se foste l'AD della VW

  • comprerei la California e ne diventerei amministratore delegato

    Votes: 3 14.3%

  • Invaderei la Polonia

    Votes: 2 9.5%

  • Farei i test con una Fiat Uno Turbodiesel per far vedere che il piu' pulito c'ha la rogna

    Votes: 7 33.3%

  • farei uno stage di 12 anni in una torneria di viti in Siberia

    Votes: 9 42.9%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .

cacciatorino

Guest
What an absurd story, let's hope you don't run out now that there are other brands in it! I read some sites used on the subject, "independent" tests had started in germany with negative results, and then these researchers said: "But no, let's try the vw uses, which are definitely less polluting and so we can finally prove that the clean diesel exists!", then they did a nice long ride in the use with vw cars and a bmw x5. I mean, the bmw was the only one who confirmed the validation values on the street.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ons-cheating-found-by-curious-clean-air-groupand that, I saw coi flame! :wink:
 
cacciatorino said:
What an absurd story, let's hope you don't run out now that there are other brands in it! I read some sites used on the subject, "independent" tests had started in germany with negative results, and then these researchers said: "But no, let's try the vw uses, which are definitely less polluting and so we can finally prove that the clean diesel exists!", then they did a nice long ride in the use with vw cars and a bmw x5. I mean, the bmw was the only one who confirmed the validation values on the street.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ons-cheating-found-by-curious-clean-air-groupand that, I saw coi flame! :wink:
Click to expand...
hanna muri
(translated)
must die
- - - updated - - - -
cacciatorino said:
What an absurd story, let's hope you don't run out now that there are other brands in it! I read some sites used on the subject, "independent" tests had started in germany with negative results, and then these researchers said: "But no, let's try the vw uses, which are definitely less polluting and so we can finally prove that the clean diesel exists!", then they did a nice long ride in the use with vw cars and a bmw x5. I mean, the bmw was the only one who confirmed the validation values on the street.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ons-cheating-found-by-curious-clean-air-groupand that, I saw coi flame! :wink:
Click to expand...
hanna muri
(translated)
must die
 
Hello hunter,
1) if they have "trucked" the diesel software, being the houses that produce common rail bosch, delphi and siemens, I doubt that the system is limited to a group. as the "hot print" of the body parts: First it was just the volkswagen, now everyone does it. this obviously does not diminish the guilt, if existing;
2) the fine of which they speak (18-20 billion dollars) I believe is the theoretical one, in case it was proved 100%, the wrong by volkswagen. but also chrysler took some time ago, but "working fully", etc. managed to reduce it;
3) on the method of measuring emissions described in the article, I allow myself to raise a doubt. It's not that it's a "snaroz" method, that is, "I made the wage last night from ascoli to civitanova and I couldn't do more than 15km/liter with my good turbulence... These consumptions are just a scam...":-)) . average speed ? 140 km/h ... acceleration? I don't know. when I see free dodge deep... maximum speed point ? 160 ... but only a little bit.... now I really don't understand why the good snaroz does not do the 22 km/l declared ... (without wanting to enter the sophistication of pressure tires, temperatures, etc. that as it said fulvio can be reproduced only in the laboratory);
(ii) Europe and its use were not in negotiations for the conclusion of a free trade treaty? think if it was, to say, the germany made resistance on the treaty...
 
Mah. .
I don't work in the automotive field, so I just write for the taste of throwing oil on the fire
from what I know, all cars of all brands are homologated and tested according to a cycle that is carried out on a roller counter
this cycle has to do with the "real life" of a car only because the motor is on and the wheels turn.. For the rest, smoke!
it goes on itself, and it is "known art", that electronic power stations are tarate to have the least consumption and the least possible emissions when the vehicle behaves according to these cycles
so much to make a banal example, no car declares consumption and pollution at 130 km/h (although certainly being tested and able to travel at much greater speeds). Why? simply because this speed is not covered by any test norm!
the empirical proof to the snaroz you can do it on the highway. see how consumption changes from 120 to 125 to 130 km/h. if up to 125 there is a certain progression... to the 130 "scatta" something... (at least on the cars tried by me)

Now, in my humble opinion, one thing must be understood: the guys who did the checks what they verified?
the response of emissions according to the test parameters? or a "snarotian" test by making the car travel according to a "real" cycle?
in the first case, then actually there may be some doll in the building house
In the second case, they discovered the obvious. that the "testing" cycles are really "academic" and good only to make a comparison, but unreliable in real life!
 
Well, I have to say that the story doesn't surprise me so much, it's notorious in the field that those tests are often, if not clearly rigged, definitely not significant.

I would like to extend the discussion.

have you seen what the ece cycle is? Does that make sense? and clearly all the houses have been adapted by developing engines and enclosures in order to optimize consumption and emissions on the cycle, which practically has no practical relevance, with the good result that when using these engines consume and pollute much more than stated, even without shaping the data.
but it takes so much to define a statistical test cycle? I tell you that the tests are a battery of achievements with these average values and these variances, and you design a motor that goes under these thresholds.

Yes, I know that the matter is more commercial than technical, but then we see that beautiful things combine in a commercial perspective. . .
 
MBT said:
Mah. .
.. observed how consumption changes from 120 to 125 to 130 km/h. if up to 125 there is a certain progression... to the 130 "scatta" something... (at least on the cars tried by me)
Click to expand...
will be the square of speed ?:biggrin:

then the eu should adopt, after the cycles of urban homologation, extraurban and mixed, the snaroz one, then immediately after the rotten one, then after the alessandro one, then mario, then angel, young, roberto, gianluca, maximum (not the maximum speed eh...):-)
 
1) if they have "trucked" the diesel software, being the houses that produce common rail bosch, delphi and siemens, I doubt that the system is limited to a group. as the "hot print" of the body parts: First it was just the volkswagen, now everyone does it. this obviously does not diminish the guilt, if existing;
Click to expand...
I don't know about this: bosch has already said that the integration of the system into the car is responsible for the manufacturer. If it was a bosch idea, I think the vw would have rushed to turn the frittata on a supplier. then even the fact that daimler and bmw have publicly stated that they are not interested in the problem makes me think that they are sure to be in place: If they weren't, they would look at a safe silence, much more than the agency already said that it will now extend the road tests to other manufacturers. It is possible that it has actually been an increase of engineers' ingenuity (or more likely marketing) vw, which I believe will be avoided by other manufacturers because the consequences in case they were discovered would have been really huge

3) on the method of measuring emissions described in the article, I allow myself to raise a doubt. It's not that it's a "snaroz" method, that is, "I made the wage last night from ascoli to civitanova and I couldn't do more than 15km/liter with my good turbulence... These consumptions are just a scam...":-)) . average speed ? 140 km/h ... acceleration? I don't know. when I see free dodge deep... maximum speed point ? 160 ... but only a little bit.... now I really don't understand why the good snaroz does not do the 22 km/l declared ... (without wanting to enter the sophistication of pressure tires, temperatures, etc. that as it said fulvio can be reproduced only in the laboratory);
Click to expand...
You may be right about this, but the argument isn't the test protocol, but I'm sorry I've passed the cards.
(ii) Europe and its use were not in negotiations for the conclusion of a free trade treaty? think if it was, to say, the germany made resistance on the treaty...
Click to expand...
This is possible, but in that case the bmw would be thrown into the crooks' group, being a much more fearful competitor for the use industry. Then the fact that the vw has hurryed to collaborate instead of starting to put in production the tank leopard tdi makes me propel for the admission of the blame.



I think reality this time is simply as we see it, that is, a company whose bosses deliberately put in place a fraud to have cars more performing than those of competition. a consequence that few write in the Italian newspapers but instead it is often reported on the used media is that, retarting as you owe the power stations, the vw diesel-use cars will become very slow and very voracious of diesel oil, which will expose the brand to a class action (y' announced) for failure to respect the performance announced at the time of purchase. So maybe they'll get him the $18 billion fine (talk to talk to the briner! :d ) but then they will have to pay tribute to the conquered consumers.

I mean, it's a fair disaster.
 
MBT said:
Now, in my humble opinion, one thing must be understood: the guys who did the checks what they verified?
the response of emissions according to the test parameters? or a "snarotian" test by making the car travel according to a "real" cycle?
in the first case, then actually there may be some doll in the building house
In the second case, they discovered the obvious.
Click to expand...
That's not the problem. the problem is that you can calibrate the control unit to pass the test on the rollers, then on the road you have certain performance (scadents) of consumption and torque. patience, it means that all competitors on the same market will have that problem, i.e. cars that besides going slowly are also unecological because the test protocol is not realistic.
If instead you send to test a car with the catalyst and then you put on the market one without, then you can beat the competition by making cars faster than the others who were so lame to put on sale the same car that has been homologated, at the price of a supposed greater pollution but who chokes!
 
MBT said:
...
Now, in my humble opinion, one thing must be understood: the guys who did the checks what they verified?
the response of emissions according to the test parameters? or a "snarotian" test by making the car travel according to a "real" cycle?
in the first case, then actually there may be some doll in the building house. . .
Click to expand...
Since the ad admitted the fact that it had rigged the data on emissions, I would say that they made it really big and, above all, on purpose.
 
I think it's a big mess.
I refer to the speech made as a hunter, and indeed even in my opinion they will have big grains with the refunds obtained through class action.
probably the valuations of the volkswagen cars will descend to peak.
I think the image damage is quite priceless, that is, they made it big, very big.
I'm curious to see if maybe they will take someone's head to the chancellor, but it will come out that inside the volkswagen there was a "dark" group that worked unknowingly of all (I know, I read too many xd dispotic books).
thinking with the hindsight, I also think about the resignation of ferdinand piëch..
 
mqdefault.webp
This is the only real responsible.
Unfortunately the suggestion that you gave, this time was welcomed and mo, look at that casino.
 
from what I heard on TV (I... journalists sometimes say biblical cacchiate), the soft of the power station "in some way" perceived if the cycle of accelerations/decellerations of the engine was aimed at a smoke emission test, then temporarily lowered the engine performance to get more favourable emissions, then return to full power (and therefore with higher emissions) when the cycle accelerated/decellerations returned out of the standard "mix emissions".

If it really was, I don't think bosh knew anything about it, since it should have implemented the mode control soft in the engine control unit. . .
 
Cristallo said:
If it really was, I don't think bosh knew anything about it, since it should have implemented the mode control soft in the engine control unit. . .
Click to expand...
I'm not sure.
Maybe it can be implemented once in line of assembly.
 
cacciatorino said:
You tell me that I'm not coming alone and then I'm not sleeping tonight??? :confused:
Click to expand...
you have never seen the hammering commercial of the type, consultant cost reduction, that tells the technicians vw that they are waste and they give too much for the figure you spend? ahi ahi
https://youtu.be/p54-mi2-nxa
 

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