but the honor?

[Er Presidente]

There is enough to open not one but 10 investigations of the ordinary and military judiciary, as well as some inquiries born and honored for violations of international treaties.
for the president I repeat the high treason as commander of the ff.aa. and violation of the constitutional charter as head of state.

the undersecretary should be put in tso to avoid doing other damages, to itself, to the government and to the Italian people.

a domandina.. .
Surely it is not applicable to the case, but if a command jeopardizes the physical integrity of its subordinates with incorrect orders one of its subordinate officers has the duty to remove the superior from the command... but that you can't do it with a president without triggering a goal? ?

I understand (actually I get the reason ) of your aversion to the head of the state, but personally I think it had little to do with this operation.

In my opinion, if the two military had returned to Italy thanks to the promise of their return, they had to go back and not even had to think of affirming the opposite (and then remand everything) just in Italy.

apart from the considerations that I have already made on the central node of the problem of which the two soldiers are subverted, for me it had to be proposed to the india an exchange with an "culpable" institutional, at least one officer of the greatest state, this to put in safety the boys and raise us first the "tiro" of the matter.

always with the aim of preventing the matter from expiring in a simple process for rubgalline, in the immediacy of the American pronouncement (obama) on the non-ingerence on a question between Italy and India (which is formally shared but politically condemnable) they had to withdraw all of our militia from any international commitment under cover on or born (by letting bilateral holdings porvourably active).

at that point the "thyrus" would rise to the right level, the international one, from which one could claim a (tard) intermediation on the matter.

I have a doubt. If, as I am sure, at the time the international "community" offered us support and we had refused. . .

Now, with what has happened, the "sequest" of an ambassador, which is unheard, we must make good face to bad game but, once the matter is closed (condemnity of ours with immediate expulsion) I hope that those who will be to the government have the strength to act "for rhymes" (breaking diplomatic relations and appeal of the ambassador) with denunciation of all international agreements made with the india, clear country.

It would not be bad to immediately ask for the intervention of a "third" country to which to delegate the management of the litigation, a country certainly "unaligned" like the danimarca or even the same land, it would be interesting to see their inspectors at work on the "proves" enchanted by the Indians.

 

[Exatem]

I understand (actually I get the reason ) of your aversion to the head of the state, but personally I think it had little to do with this operation.

Well, as I said in another post he is the supreme leader of the armed forces and also seems to have played a well-defined role in the throw of the affair.

In my opinion, if the two military had returned to Italy thanks to the promise of their return, they had to go back and not even had to think of affirming the opposite (and then remand everything) just in Italy.

I have already expressed my opinion here.
to whom did we give our word?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Right. . .

always with the aim of preventing the matter from expiring in a simple process for rubgalline, in the immediacy of the American pronouncement (obama) on the non-ingerence on a question between Italy and India (which is formally shared but politically condemnable) they had to withdraw all of our militia from any international commitment under cover on or born (by letting bilateral holdings porvourably active).

I also said that in a previous post.
Let us withdraw and leave them in the reeds.
They arrested two German sailors. . .

 

[Fulvio Romano]

always with the aim of preventing the matter from expiring in a simple process for rubgalline, in the immediacy of the American pronouncement (obama) on the non-ingerence on a question between Italy and India (which is formally shared but politically condemnable) they had to withdraw all of our militia from any international commitment under cover on or born (by letting bilateral holdings porvourably active).

Maybe... But maybe something like that would have been seen by foreign press as a "child's baby"... who knows.

 

[numero1]

on the role of the president I don't know, I'm perplexed ....... is actually the commander in charge, but I have always seen his figure + as a personality of guarantee.
I have never thought, nor do I think now, that he could/should give operational orders to soldiers/battles etc.
This is instead, a description that fits a lot of + to the president uses.

Now don't shoot me, if you can......... :frown:
As far as the india is concerned, at least not + of us, and not + of a thousand other countries and/or ethnic groups.
Perhaps someone has escaped that the india is not + the country of 50/60 years ago.
when we talk about selling something to Indians we don't talk about one or two cars, or machinery, or planes etc.
Let's talk about mooooled numbers + vast, with consequent commercial relapses.

I agree with what happened?Absolutely not!Indians have made a caxxata, consciously or unconsciously, I think the second.
after that they did not know how to get out of it without losing their face, and all this was explained, much better than me, by exatem.

So what were we supposed to do?
there were 2 alternatives:
1) make good face to bad game, and postpone ns. soldiers back; as it was done the first time.
or continue the melina until the final release, a logo strategy.
2) or as it was decided to do, keep our men here when they came back the second time.

but if you take the road number 2 then you have to, also, accept the consequences and do not bring the country into the feces.
at the cost of also losing money (books orders).

I mean, he chose to keep the maro here, and we were all happy, then..... but they realized that they had no strength to continue on that road, or (against) we were "replaced" by the Indian government and we did not know/maybe to say no.

what was the reason for the Italian state (here the tiny ones want us) so it made a caxxata still + big of that of the Indians.
once decided that the riflemen remained in Italy they had to Stay in Italy, point!
No turn.

greetings

 

[numero1]

in Italy instead a professor was called to save the nation from bankruptcy and to return the presumed lost international credibility.

Presumably?
We had it right under our shoes, and we re-lifted and then re-fall now.
even if for different reasons.
Hi.

 

[Er Presidente]

Maybe... But maybe something like that would have been seen by foreign press as a "child's baby"... who knows.

reasoning is simple. If the international community does not protect me (it cannot, it does not want) I cannot participate (to take part in human beings) in missions that could potentially expose our nation (his men) to a no longer "calculated" risk.
It's not a shrapnel. It's a simple consequence of facts. It is enough to be clear and decisive in implementing it.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

reasoning is simple. If the international community does not protect me (it cannot, it does not want) I cannot participate (to take part in human beings) in missions that could potentially expose our nation (his men) to a no longer "calculated" risk.
It's not a shrapnel. It's a simple consequence of facts. It is enough to be clear and decisive in implementing it.

In fact, I did not say what it is; on this I agree with you (for once... you can grant me... :biggrin; but what could appear abroad, from the press that, as often more serious than ours, still feeds on scoops.

 

[Exatem]

Presumably?
We had it right under our shoes, and we re-lifted and then re-fall now.
even if for different reasons.
Hi.

to become the 17th German lander?
You know I love you, but don't come and tell me that the professor was our clerk. .
One made the horns at the summit ue but the other licked the cu..ne to the gatekeeper.
Who smells the breath now?

 

[Exatem]

on the role of the president I don't know, I'm perplexed ....... is actually the commander in charge, but I saw his figure + as a personality of guarantee.
I have never thought, nor do I think now, that he could/should give operational orders to soldiers/battles etc.

It is indeed a guarantee.
who if not the supreme leader has the moral obligation to protect, to defend his men?
Do you know a big one in history like rommel what he said?

The higher the degree, the greater the effect you get with the example.

It is not a matter of giving operational orders, to that are destined the commands, but of giving the guidelines, of directing, of being the guarantor reference precisely of the constitution, constitution that has been betrayed since it is expressly forbidden the extradition of our citizens to countries in which the death penalty is previewed.

 

[numero1]

to become the 17th German lander?
You know I love you, but don't come and tell me that the professor was our clerk. .
One made the horns at the summit ue but the other licked the cu..ne to the gatekeeper.
Who smells the breath now?

there are not only horns, there was also all the previous and posteriorly to the horns.
or have we forgotten?
so my answer is that however it smells of + the breath to the first, because first (discuss the game of words) to have the mouth scented to the first would be to take the annual production of an entire collutory factory.
and maybe it wouldn't be enough...... .
I love you too, but on this we have different opinions, and I am not at all a loser fan of the second, great from the point of view of the accounts, but too approximate to be a true "political".
and has long been seen:
Hello exa

 

[Exatem]

I love you too, but on this we have different opinions, and I am not at all a loser fan of the second, great from the point of view of the accounts, but too approximate to be a true "political".
Hello exa

But less bad, he thinks that it's boring if we all thought it the same way. there would no longer be the healthy dialectical comparison that however, although then everyone remains on his positions, increases.
the important thing, and with you it has always been like this and I give you credit, is to remain in reciprocal respect.
Hello ;-)

 

[numero1]

In fact, I did not say what it is; on this I agree with you (for once... you can grant me... :biggrin; but what could appear abroad, from the press that, as often more serious than ours, still feeds on scoops.

I agree, but... I wonder if, however, what the President suggested would not have had any effect.
And tomorrow?
Hi.

 

[Exatem]

In fact, I did not say what it is; on this I agree with you (for once... you can grant me... :biggrin; but what could appear abroad, from the press that, as often more serious than ours, still feeds on scoops.

I agree, but... I wonder if, however, what the President suggested would not have had any effect.
And tomorrow?
Hi.

Guys... here I have to wand you (good).
even if I have expressed the idea of sending everyone to fangala you must be realistic.
Read what I wrote several times by talking about the "sea power". Perhaps now, in the light of the Indian facts, it is all clearer.

 

[tecnico_plast]

I keep seeing her (always more) as a figure of quaqquaraqquà.

It makes me anger that you can't imagine. . .

 

[Oldwarper]

I understand (actually I get the reason ) of your aversion to the head of the state, but personally I think it had little to do with this operation.

It has something to do with it, like the coup d'état perpetrated to bring the German proconsul to the government first making him a life senator for who knows what merits and then giving him the lead of the country with a white change. as well explained by exatem is the head of the armed forces and second figure symbol of Italy after the flag. He is not a mere puppet, and although he has fewer powers than the president, he has enough to influence the political-military destiny of the country.

In my opinion, if the two military had returned to Italy thanks to the promise of their return, they had to go back and not even had to think of affirming the opposite (and then remand everything) just in Italy.

They had not to go back into india and were forced to india to indicate the international laws that have freely subscribed that impose their return or ask them if they are exempt from respecting them and why. in this case the consequences in the international context on the lack of respect for the word given would have suffered them.

apart from the considerations that I have already made on the central node of the problem of which the two soldiers are subverted, for me it had to be proposed to the india an exchange with an "culpable" institutional, at least one officer of the greatest state, this to put in safety the boys and raise us first the "tiro" of the matter.

always with the aim of preventing the matter from expiring in a simple process for rubgalline, in the immediacy of the American pronouncement (obama) on the non-ingerence on a question between Italy and India (which is formally shared but politically condemnable) they had to withdraw all of our militia from any international commitment under cover on or born (by letting bilateral holdings porvourably active).

and on this I agree. bilateral collaborations would have ceased and went to France, England and Germany. I wonder why Europe immediately pulled back and after the Finmeccanica scandal, the france rushed into the pit to propose its bribes... united Europe... But when did you ever exist? ? ?

at that point the "thyrus" would rise to the right level, the international one, from which one could claim a (tard) intermediation on the matter.

I have a doubt. If, as I am sure, at the time the international "community" offered us support and we had refused. . .

We didn't do it in time. The help was refused before we asked. no one would compromise their economic relations to help a competitor. How bad is politics at the service of finance, huh? ? ?

Now, with what has happened, the "sequest" of an ambassador, which is unheard, we must make good face to bad game but, once the matter is closed (condemnity of ours with immediate expulsion) I hope that those who will be to the government have the strength to act "for rhymes" (breaking diplomatic relations and appeal of the ambassador) with denunciation of all international agreements made with the india, clear country.

impossible. Does it seem like "civilization" brics are so far from india? now they have understood that they can make the "big voice" and for the strong (once...) Western economies will be green worms. they know that they can impose any nefariousness and international violation and pass it smoothly by waving your contractors under your nose or unleashing your peers. We did a very dangerous precedent. We had to accept the fact of the risk of seeing ourselves strangled the orders (let's remember that if they accepted the advantages for them there were, I'm not so sure of these reprisals...) and return our industries (but look a little... maybe we had to work our unemployed...), then I want to see how quiet our competitors would go to take our place in a country where the laws depend on the mood of cows. .
if Europe had been Really united the india would have seen the call to lose all the euro area industries, then yes the calzones if they would have dropped them, instead our "cuginetti" immediately rushed to offer themselves to our place... but what are we going to do in Europe, to make pixla figures?? ? :angry:

It would not be bad to immediately ask for the intervention of a "third" country to which to delegate the management of the litigation, a country certainly "unaligned" like the danimarca or even the same land, it would be interesting to see their inspectors at work on the "proves" enchanted by the Indians.

Well, give third a par of rocks... is part of the "northern group" that sees the Mediterranean crisis in the benefit of the north-European regions. I would prefer new zelanda or Argentine (very close to the brics but with good relations with Italy seen the remarkable presence of Italian citizens).

 

[Er Presidente]

It has something to do with it, like the coup d'état perpetrated to bring the German proconsul to the government first making him a life senator for who knows what merits and then giving him the lead of the country with a white change.

I'm sorry.

They didn't have to go back to India.

They didn't have to get india, that was the problem.
However, it would seem that the "missed return" should remain reserved until the conclusion of a phase in an attempt to find a "pacific" agreement.
The problem, it would seem, is that "some" (one by chance) took off in the newspapers to shout "the event" by burning every possibility of agreement.

If it's true...

and on this I agree. bilateral collaborations would have ceased and went to France, England and Germany. I wonder why Europe immediately pulled back and after the Finmeccanica scandal, the france rushed into the pit to propose its bribes... united Europe... But when did you ever exist? ? ?

on the franc we can still have no doubt about its "eurosimpatia" to "sprazzi" and "advantage", have given repeated evidence in the recent past.

We didn't do it in time. The help was refused before we asked. no one would compromise their economic relations to help a competitor. How bad is politics at the service of finance, huh? ? ?

We can't know, he's talking about a year and a half ago.

impossible. Does it seem like "civilization" brics are so far from india? now they have understood that they can make the "big voice" and for the strong (once...) Western economies will be green worms. they know that they can impose any nefariousness and international violation and pass it smoothly by waving your contractors under your nose or unleashing your peers. We did a very dangerous precedent. We had to accept the fact of the risk of seeing ourselves strangled the orders (let's remember that if they accepted the advantages for them there were, I'm not so sure of these reprisals...) and return our industries (but look a little... maybe we had to work our unemployed...), then I want to see how quiet our competitors would go to take our place in a country where the laws depend on the mood of cows. .
if Europe had been Really united the india would have seen the call to lose all the euro area industries, then yes the calzones if they would have dropped them, instead our "cuginetti" immediately rushed to offer themselves to our place... but what are we going to do in Europe, to make pixla figures?? ? :angry:

on this I fully agree, in front of the malafede (and the request to enter into territorial waters was a fraud) there must not be feared, at the first request to bring down the military from the ship immediately referred the ambassador in Italy and gave him a communiqué in the right terms "if you demand this then all the agreements jump, point".

Well, give third a par of rocks... is part of the "northern group" that sees the Mediterranean crisis in the benefit of the north-European regions. I would prefer new zelanda or Argentine (very close to the brics but with good relations with Italy seen the remarkable presence of Italian citizens).

I trust, I don't know the state of international relations, "friends."

two considerations:
I repeat that the problem has arisen as soon as the mission was built, no one has ever made missions, I repeat, without prior arrangements.

the state of poor international consideration of which Italy suffers are the consequence of its state, not its cause.

 

[Exatem]

the Third World Warthe director of the world affairs of new delhi wrote an interesting report on the relations between india and Italy and more generally, between Asian and Western countries.
If we retrace the history of Europe we will have to consider that it was characterized for at least 5 centuries by colonial adventures characterized by misdeeds of all kinds characterized by disdain to the natives, oppression, abuse, brutal repression, which left a bulky baggage of memories never entirely buried. so every action of the “old continent” is seen with suspicion and fear.

Italy has no great colonial tradition and certainly has no economic advantages, indeed, the campaigns of the twentieth century cost us a sproposito (see discussion “the great illusionist”) and we did not get anything. according to the author of the article the Indian of media culture knows very well distinguish between “rapaci” nations as land, france, portgallo, olanda and those who have had a lesser role in colonialism (or have not had any).
Italy is seen as a “young” country, unified not too long ago and until then fractionated, subdivided, invaded, “colonized” too, but it is still a country of birth under the control of Pakistan and the Indian separatist minorities and this has its weight in the evaluations. this despite our country enjoys a discreet credit of sympathy also because seen as a “cock wash in the middle of iron pots”. Italy represents in the eyes of this part of the world, the “third world” of Europe but it is also the country in the center of the Catholic world so, thanks to the work of people as a teresa mother of calcutta, it uses the respect of a country where religion is at the base of its culture.

but the born is however “indestructive” because for a long time he has been pressing on the india to support the embargo against Iran and possibly an attack on the same country, forcing it to a very uncomfortable position. In this context, a minor incident such as the one occurring between our military and pirates/fishers, is of particular importance. However two were and are still priority issues.
- sovereignty: and here there is no doubt that the militaries abused, were and are direct expression of the Italian state. Surely they were not boarded on a merchant for their private issues. they were in uniform and carried out a mission abroad to defend the safety of people and things, under mandate of the parliament and following international agreements and even if they had committed an offence, the jurisdiction is Italian. the taking of Indian positions is contrary to the principles of international law
- protection of fundamental rights: Italy is committed to every international headquarters against the death penalty. the only hypothesis of the possibility that can be condemned to the capital punishment would have demanded an absolute firmness by our highest authorities.

Let us return a moment to Europe that so much asks us and nothing gives us.
with some realism it is easy to understand how germany is winning the third world war. little at a time she managed (or is succeeding) to impose her will on the weakest partners. Greek is the first victim, under humiliating conditions and who are turning it into a colony. the system began to eat itself and the super Germanic driving structure is slowly melting as snow in the sun national governments replacing them with a system governed by finance. Italy that is known for its anything but transparent economic system, seems the next designated victim and as the Greek, is considered weak and victim of richer and influential partners.

it also demonstrates the case of the attack on the libia in which we were clearly “the losers”. In the name of European solidarity, of an unclear humanitarian pretext, we had to go against national interests in order to enforce American wills and its European vessels. the unexpected and aggressive French and English introduction in libia, aims to take out the dangerous Italian rivals from their privileged position and to put them in a corner eliminating them from the North African market. the france, after the fall of the Libyan leader, assumed the role of leadership and of main partner highlighting how our country moved late, in a uncertain and mediocre way. it shows the fact that during his speech to the United Nations of 20 September America thanked for the war contribution the danimarca and Norwegian (!) totally ignoring the Italian participation that if instead we go to read in the numbers, it was very substantial (and expensive).
They forget the cousins of oltralpe (or deliberately ignore) that the Italian planes were protagonists of 2000 with more than 7000 hours of flight to which the 400 hours of helicopters are added i.e. how much the English (2400 lottes) that however had about 30 planes against the 14 of ours, and that our armed forces altogether participated for 10% to the war effort.

It is incredible how this “forgetfulness” has passed into silence but once more highlights our role in the community.

 

[Er Presidente]

the Third World War... it shows the fact that during his speech to the United Nations of 20 September America thanked for the war contribution the danimarca and Norwegian (!) totally ignoring the Italian participation that if we go to read in numbers, it was very substantial (and expensive).
They forget the cousins of oltralpe (or deliberately ignore) that the Italian planes were protagonists of 2000 with more than 7000 hours of flight to which the 400 hours of helicopters are added i.e. how much the English (2400 lottes) that however had about 30 planes against the 14 of ours, and that our armed forces altogether participated for 10% to the war effort.

It is incredible how this “forgetfulness” has passed into silence but once more highlights our role in the community.

All shareable, but personally an idea of why that forgetfulness on the libia is there would be... and maybe, forgetting to name us they did us a great favor.

 

[Exatem]

All shareable, but personally an idea of why that forgetfulness on the libia is there would be... and maybe, forgetting to name us they did us a great favor.

I sfugge. . . .

 

[Er Presidente]

I sfugge. . . .

I remember that at the beginning of the operations you were not so sure if you consider them allies or friends of the rais, since, as well as partner was every day on television to claim the help of his "friend".

a friend who gave luster to the Libyan dictator in such a way that he had been "exposed" to put into trouble all the international community.
Americans, wrongly or rightly, have the vice of being very susceptible in taking into account, or not, the flanking countries of their enemies.

It seems clear to me that after sending our historic alliance with the Americans to the ortics (a painful platform of democristiana memory that allowed us to maintain in Europe a particularly advantageous position because it is subject to "competition") we lost a lot "appeal" also in Europe that has made us conquer the decades of our behavior as "friend of friends" that we did not lack to flaunt.