f-35 willdie

[marcof]

http://youtu.be/r-_owmdn64mI want to see a f-35 do it! This is an airplane, a non-healthy, brilliant project, which has taught the world to be by air the result of the thought of a genius as jack northrop

it is good to point out that what you see the f18 does it with 3000 kg of external loads (which certainly do not benefit the aerodynamics) and without adjustable nozzles!
What a beast... I saw it in a similar live demonstration at an air show in times when the planes were still maneuvering dangerously close to the public (before ramstein...) and it was an impressive experience.

 

[Er Presidente]

There is a question which I have been asking myself for a while and which the President can certainly give an answer.
notoriously the use navy predilige (if not demanded) bimotor planes for safety issues (in the middle of the sea there are no alternative routes and in case of avary or war damage you must still return on board), said this (which I think has already been told by the same president), considering that the same American navy is one of the greatest potential buyers of the f35, for what reason the lockheed martin has stubbornly intended to design
Why carry an idea born already old stubbornly?
I do not think that at this moment is so serious a microfraction in a turbine shovel (which if in flight could still have disastrous effects), we are still in the development phase and the tests serve precisely to this, but it is very serious that the medium is unsuitable to satisfy the (exaggerated) expectations despite the cost is mild to the inverosimile.

It's a complicated story that comes from afar, everything started with the f-111 that was strongly wanted by mcnamara as a "one" plane, it had to replace from the b-52 dela sac to the a-4 of the marina. had to be a strategic fighter and bomber.
In the end a very good "strike" bomber came out of the abnormous cost that the marina refused to use on its aircraft carriers.
All the "panoply" of a-1, a-4, a-5, a-6, a-7, f-4, f-8, did not find the "solute" unique, but the "talk" continued to work.
a first step was the f-4 phantom that was used both by the navy and by the usaf as a hunt and as a fighter bomber, retired a little bit of irony and seemed easy to think of being able to develop a real "born" multi-role for that craft.
with the f-14 the navy found peace, leaving the a-6 and the a-7 their work of attack.
The usaf misplaced the a-7 and with the f-15 he returned to pure hunting.
the temptation came back strong when another choice of the navy was successful, the f-18, (lost in the epochal clash with the f-16) which was born directly as fa-18, here a multi-role.
I retire with regret to the f-14 but the a-6 still do not find a substitute, the usaf was again humiliated forced to adopt a new aircraft born to the marina, but with f-15e discovered that a good hunting could also be a good bomber. the F-16, considered too "light" eventually had a second life as a bomber.
it finally seemed possible to "invent" an ex-novo multi-role, that should replace Fa-18.
it was not difficult, established that the electronics made the second pilot nutile, that the reliability of the engines would make useless the second engine and that the stealth technology was indispensable, it seemed all "down".
Instead, no, hunger vien eating and fury to broaden the "spectrum" of the employment profile was born an absurd "thing". while the hornet is identical to the navy, the usaf and the marines, f-35 is divided into three "subversions", becoming a similar "involucro" but with so much different "roba" inside. of "one" remained only the price, astronomical, the decision to make it even a vstol practically killed him.
what was to be the crowning of a winning philosophy has transmulated in a horrible project, complicated, expensive, unreliable (the project compared to the objectives), hated by all, the pilots and his designers.
In the end, I am convinced, to save it, you will have to "spin" the vertical take-off version and unify the two subversions of the marina and the usaf, with a deep "reconsideration" of the specifications. But I'm afraid it would come out of a tarpaulin "cose" and the marina could (if it hasn't already done so) renounce its part and return, for the umpteenth time to ask the grumman a decent plane for his needs.
the usaf would find on the groppone the development and the costs of the only terrestrial version, who knows if in the end you do not experience in a draconian decision of obama (like that of carter for the b-1) that could remove from embarrassment the military leadership already in affanno.
the real problem is the costs, an f-35 costs over 150 m of $, officially, in practice much more, almost as a f-22, sincerely there is no logic and logical justification to acquire an attack plane that must cost as a supercaccia of aerial superiority.
all without taking into account the fact that the f-35 fails to comply with the specifications (absurd) that have justified it not at the price of a strongly "marginal" autonomy.
solution, external loads, sending to ramengo stealth characteristics, which are one of the biggest reasons of its abnormous cost.
the vstol version, beautiful, but necessary, alone 10 years of development and an investment equal to the whole program.
f-35 represents the quintessence of the wrong way to manage a project. a sort of monopoly of the boeing that forced lockheed martin to "discover" the maximum to cancel the opponent promising everything and even more in the race and then having to deal with the harsh reality.
It's incredible, it's enough so little to achieve an excellent result, leaving some "feet" of the "torta" for the hareer and the new hornet for the marina, but the inordigy never stops.
But lockheed-martin risks a lot, a program of this size can kill her (as already happened to the general dynamics with b-1).

 

[Er Presidente]

it is good to point out that what you see the f18 does it with 3000 kg of external loads (which certainly do not benefit the aerodynamics) and without adjustable nozzles!
What a beast... I saw it in a similar live demonstration at an air show in times when the planes were still maneuvering dangerously close to the public (before ramstein...) and it was an impressive experience.

true, in fact I had assumed that this was evident the feature of the footage.
of movies with the hornet acrobatics are bizarre, but this is really particular.

 

[numero1]

Well, since I've been there (in the subject) I've seen this today by chance:http://espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio/con-questi-f35-ci-abbattono-subito/2202065What do you think?
Hi.

 

[Er Presidente]

Well, since I've been there (in the subject) I've seen this today by chance:http://espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio/con-questi-f35-ci-abbattono-subito/2202065What do you think?
Hi.

"journalist" truth, now it's "fashion" to put on the f-35, and then they also write those who don't know how to distinguish a radar from a scolapasta.

 

[marcof]

"journalist" truth, now it's "fashion" to put on the f-35, and then they also write those who don't know how to distinguish a radar from a scolapasta.

but I have browsed the "official document" to which they refer in the article.http://speciali.espresso.repubblica.it/pdf/f35dossier.pdf and he's been on the net for a while.
the report, addressed to the offices of the senator of the defense uses, was written by this guy:http://www.defense.gov/bios/biographydetail.aspx?biographyid=233That doesn't seem like a journalist of our priced defense and aeronautical magazines.

Try to read it... with what that plane is costing me seems like a tragic situation:
"three student pilot comments predicted severe impacts of the visibility shortfalls in combat or in training of a more tactical nature. one said, “a pilot will find it nearly impossible to check [their six o’clock position] under g.” another commented, “the head rest is too large and will impede aft visibility and survivability during surface and air engagements,” and, “aft visibility will get the pilot gunned every time,” referring to close-range visual combat." not only should we not respect the contract and should not pay any penalty, but we should demand back even as already spent.
what will ever be, at most they declare war threatening to attack us with the f35 and then we will have to pull out of the angar the esaldo sva to be able to defend ourselves in a maneuvered fight. We've come to him for six hours (so the radar works badly) and they're beautiful that fucked... :biggrin:

 

[Exatem]

"journalist" truth, now it's "fashion" to put on the f-35, and then they also write those who don't know how to distinguish a radar from a scolapasta.

If the gnome didn't absorb me all the free time, I would have a nice article to write... .

 

[Exatem]

If the gnome didn't absorb me all the free time, I would have a nice article to write... .

I found a "hole." .
the point of not returnin the last issue of the marine magazine came out an interesting article signed by michele Cosentino, already contr Admiral and collaborator of the magazine.
the article traces the troubled history of the plane and clarifies some unknown aspects to those who are not interested directly.
f-35 lightining ii was born with the ambition of being a weapon system capable of ensuring a qualitative leap in terms of effectiveness and versatility. able to combine multi-role capacity with stealth characteristics and can therefore perform both missions of aerial superiority and ground attack avoiding being discovered and using its own network of sensors to locate, engage and destroy multiple targets. to obtain these results is inserted and connected to the c4star architecture becoming part of the system itself allowing the pilot to use a network of internal and external sensors.
the multi-role capacity was strongly desired and sought in the project, also affecting the choice of motorization that was entrusted to the “pratt & whitney f-135. stealth capabilities were obtained without using expensive absorbent radar paints, but using a “fiber-mat” inserted by vulcanization in composite materials used (about 42% of the weight).
born in 2001 the f-35/jsf program includes three variants of the same plane, the purely terrestrial “a”, the “b” that is the short take-off version and vertical landing, the “c” for carriers with catapults and arrest cables. if you consider cell, aeronautical and avionic systems, 80% of the components are common to the three versions. This versatility is already a great complication but the difficulties are also other. In practice it is evidenced that the internationality of the program and the difficulties in managing the divisions between the tasks, have increased the already complex specifications of project, with technical-operational and political-economic difficulties accentuated by the intention to realize three versions of the aircraft and the number of participants to the project. the nations directly involved are in fact, united states, great brethren, Italy, Dutch, danimarca, Norwegian, Turkish, Australian and Canada as well as the agreements already signed for a progressive enlargement. Moreover, the “clients” are at the same time both aeronautics and marines, which makes it even more complex to harmonize requirements and specifications.
after 3 years after the project was launched, the “b” variant was the subject of an important reassesssment concerning in particular the weight of the aircraft that had become excessive. the consequent changes, which involved cell and government surfaces, resulted in a delay of 18 months causing a chain of delays even on other versions that also had problems of various kinds.
version b was subject to overheating and this resulted in the new design of the fan doors while for the c it had to change the stop hook.
a defect common to the three versions concerned the pilot's helmet and in particular its integrated vision system. but the version that has given and is giving more problems remains the b that has involved numerous modifications and reformulations of the project.
the lockheed martin, to try to recover the lost time, has remodeled the program of tests in flight reaching in 2010 the total number of scheduled flights. This was not totally painless since it resulted in a substantial increase in costs.
the worsened economic aspect has only aggravated the contrast between the various contenders i.e., manufacturer, American congress, program office, customers and, print (especially Anglo-Saxon).
so at the beginning of 2011 the secretary to the American defense robert gates arranged a test of the duration of two years of the variant b letting mean a possible cancellation of the variant. but the body of the marines and the lockheed martin have rebate declaring the intention to continue in development and opposing the cancellation of the same. the reprogramming of the lockheed above, previews 12 flights per month benefiting of an appropriation of 2.8 billion dollars while the whole program has undergone a drastic acceleration being divided into three phases:
1) development and demonstration with 13 aircraft involved in patuxent river, maryland and edwards.
2) pre-series of a limited number (260 aircraft) of which the first two lots have already been delivered, the third and fourth are in production and the fifth has just begun.
3) series production currently scheduled for 2019.
the production of series (with a first batch of 107 aircraft) should therefore take place with a delay of 6 years regarding the forecast.
the three main American customers currently have 2423 aircraft of which 1763 for the usaf (f-35a), 260 to the us navy (f-35c) and 320 to the marines (f-35b) plus 80 f-35c. Overall, including orders from other nations, total production should reach 3100 specimens in 2035 and a total of 6000 in the long term.
here is the most contested aspect of the whole program i.e., the cost. the figures gave rise to an impressive ballet also because subject to different interpretations depending on whether detractors or proponents of the program. referring to a reliable source i.e. the gao (government accountability office) known as “the guard dog” of all American military programs, the total cost of the program (including development, pre-series and series) would amount to $395 billion for the 2423 US aircraft. but the pentagon has drastically reduced the number of aircraft what, remaining the amount mentioned, has made the price per single specimen rise.
We are talking about increasing costs, but it is not easy to determine the final price of each individual plane as subject to an incalculable number of variables for this the Italian Ministry of Defense has attempted to make clarity.
the first 4 aircraft specimens, inserted in the sixth batch of pre-series, will cost 98 million euros each. f35-b will cost 107 million (data related to 2013). in 2017 prices will fall to 70 million for F-35a and 92 million for “b”.
therefore there is no doubt that the f-35 is an expensive plane whose problems and delays have done nothing but increase its costs and as the media do not lose opportunity to underline the negative aspects, the lockheed martin responds citing the positive results with particular regard to the navalized versions.
the very first sea tests of the version b took place in October 2011 with 72 applants and decolli from ship wasp demonstrating the full compatibility between the ship system and aircraft system. after a series of launches from the catapult, the version c from November 2011 carried out a whole series of tests with the new electromagnetic catapults such as those embarked on the gerald ford. the first sea launches/ landings should take place in 2014. At the same time flights were made with the different combinations of armament and refueling in flight.
According to the producers the test flights continue to record successes and advances and the future seems perhaps less uncertain since the program has now exceeded the point of no return.

too far to be erased (especially in the absence of alternatives) even if, due to the delays and problems arising, lightning will not be able to maintain the promises of promoters and designers and will have to be the story to judge its success or failure.

 

[Er Presidente]

I give 15 days of life, maximum one month.
:biggrin:

 

[Exatem]

I give 15 days of life, maximum one month.
:biggrin:

You mean that the f35 is thrown into the toilet despite all the money already spent?
and with what would be replaced?
because the sense of the article I mentioned at the end is this. it will not be the means from the promised performance but there are no alternatives therefore, or drink or drown.. .
I expressed myself, not being absolutely expert on aircraft, I would invest in an upgrade of the av8 for the marina and in an extension of the American leasing.
but I fly like a penguin so... the word to experts.

 

[Er Presidente]

You mean that the f35 is thrown into the toilet despite all the money already spent?
and with what would be replaced?
because the sense of the article I mentioned at the end is this. it will not be the means from the promised performance but there are no alternatives therefore, or drink or drown.. .
I expressed myself, not being absolutely expert on aircraft, I would invest in an upgrade of the av8 for the marina and in an extension of the American leasing.
but I fly like a penguin so... the word to experts.

obama has been put in a blind alley, all the press and, above all, the pentagon shoot the pigeon against the f-35, means they can't wait to get rid of it.
I see, I see... a new b-1, first they kill him to get rid of the "mostro" (all the contract system that is not standing even with the crutches) then from the ashes will reborn an a-35 revised, simplified, renouncing to the bullshit of the vertical takeoff and voted to the attack (so as a fighter plane does not have hope even if they put in front of a mig-15) the (unne necessary veils) the (unneeds
the safe "zompa" constructor, he won't survive the excitement, but well, in America everything you can do, anything, but he doesn't smack it with the other's ass, he "goes" and you don't even know why.

Turn off the bottle. . .

 

[Exatem]

obama has been put in a blind alley, all the press and, above all, the pentagon shoot the pigeon against the f-35, means they can't wait to get rid of it.
I see, I see... a new b-1, first they kill him to get rid of the "mostro" (all the contract system that is not standing even with the crutches) then from the ashes will reborn an a-35 revised, simplified, renouncing to the bullshit of the vertical takeoff and voted to the attack (so as a fighter plane does not have hope even if they put in front of a mig-15) the (unne necessary veils) the (unneeds
the safe "zompa" constructor, he won't survive the excitement, but well, in America everything you can do, anything, but he doesn't smack it with the other's ass, he "goes" and you don't even know why.

Turn off the bottle. . .

But you know, I care more about our house and then I wonder. . .
What do we put on the cauliur?

p.s. good news. I wonder how but we pulled out the paxxes and it looks like our riflemen won't go back into the india.

 

[Er Presidente]

But you know, I care more about our house and then I wonder. . .
What do we put on the cauliur?

p.s. good news. I wonder how but we pulled out the paxxes and it looks like our riflemen won't go back into the india.

it would be a nice thing to work with the English and the Marines for an upgraded av8 "c" with new avionic, wing increased, engine upgraded, slightly supersonic (postburner).
his development was already planned in this direction, but then not to give "fastidium" was killed.

 

[Exatem]

About m... http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/showthread.php?36566-tutto-salvo-fuorche-l-onoredredging the network in search of news and information about the Italian-india affair, I came across a news that does nothing but add gasoline to the fire of polemics against a political injected and incapable class.

that military spending does not represent a source of votes have noticed by now all. both from the right and from the left is in progress the game of the cerino to show outside to the program f35 denying what done and signed by themselves alternating to the government from 1996 (date of birth of the joint strike fighter) to today.
in this very Italian race to smarcarsi, it has passed almost unnoticed, hidden under the dust of the case f35, another brilliant performance of our “representatives” to roma.

the American president barack obama, strong of the slogan "buy american" has cancelled the orders for the purchase of the Italian planes c-27j spartan destined to the armed forces and to the national guard making infuriating in particular the latter that had chosen our aircraft because more economic and efficient. In addition, the old g-222 which they used had acquired after being upgraded by aermacchi alenia and to be assigned to Afghan air forces were also missing. Thus the order of 38 spartan (initially had to be 78) has been cancelled and the 21 means already in services will be placed on the market of the used at km 0, giving a further damage to the Italian industry that will be in great difficulty to sell the "new".

In reality the cut imposed by the president uses does not bring great savings to the pentagon (which must however acquire a transport plane) but rather aims to turn the orders subtracted to Italy, to the national industry. lockheed martin (the same as f35) will sell his c-130 to both the national guard and the Afghans.

we are committed to spending more than 15 billion euros in favor of the use while already many countries begin to express perplexity on the new plane of miracles and study the way to get out of it by pointing rather than on a 5th generation plane, to one of 4th evolved (the 4++).

If we had negotiated this contract with respect for the contracts signed by the use of our industry, would we have shouted at the scandal?
is it possible that no one complained of the damage suffered by our industry?
is it not politics and in particular the mont government, which should have beaten the fists on the table threatening commercial reprisals?

 

[tecnico_plast]

I mean, turn around and turn around, we always take her where...

 

[marcof]

the American president barack obama, strong of the slogan “buy american” has cancelled the orders for the purchase of the Italian planes c-27j spartan destined to the armed forces and to the national guard
(cut)
Thus the order of 38 spartan (initially had to be 78) has been cancelled and the 21 means already in services will be placed on the market of the used at km 0, giving a further damage to the Italian industry that will be in great difficulty to sell the "new".

obama has made his interests and, from his point of view, he has done well protecting the companies uses
Obviously the sales contracts of those aircraft have written and supervised them of the imbeciles, otherwise they would find themselves in our own terms with respect to thegi f35. evidently overseas contracts know when to sign them and know how to write them to make them sign. here we must be the opposite, and it is therefore normal to take it to that place.
and on, let's cry a little bit of frying on the evil of the rest of the world that always makes us the ox...
fuck, f35s, for example, will be well evaluated and chosen also by some military, possibly not of the forest body but of aviation and marina? they also have well read sales contracts, supply conditions, performance and promised times etc.
I am doubtful that our armed forces in the complex (for which there are obviously exceptions) make more water than a colander.

in this very Italian race to smarcarsi, it has passed almost unnoticed, hidden under the dust of the case f35, another brilliant performance of our “representatives” to roma.

Yes, our representatives are fine. Is there a board of directors in alenia, or is it a wagon?

In reality the cut imposed by the president uses does not bring great savings to the pentagon (which must however acquire a transport plane) but rather aims to turn the orders subtracted to Italy, to the national industry. lockheed martin (the same as f35) will sell his c-130 to both the national guard and the Afghans.

and (from their point of view they do well, indeed very well... Should we not be able to draft a contract like that of the f35 with which they are putting it in that place by lubricating with the brakings? And why?

we are committed to spending more than 15 billion euros in favor of the use while already many countries begin to express perplexity on the new plane of miracles and study the way to get out of it by pointing rather than on a 5th generation plane, to one of 4th evolved (the 4++).

If we had negotiated this contract with respect for the contracts signed by the use of our industry, would we have shouted at the scandal?
is it possible that no one complained of the damage suffered by our industry?
is it not politics and in particular the mont government, which should have beaten the fists on the table threatening commercial reprisals?

If our industry manages its business in this way it is right (or natural, choose you) to disappear. point.

 

[Exatem]

and (from their point of view they do well, indeed very well... Should we not be able to draft a contract like that of the f35 with which they are putting it in that place by lubricating with the brakings? And why?

because when you buy a complex system like a weapon system, you select what meets the requirements.
currently the specification of the American race, responded only the spartan, a cargo plane that pilots as a much lighter aircraft.
watch this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oosocxzb5nkBut it is clear that, in order to facilitate the national industry, a great deal has been digested to our aircraft.
Maybe you put in crisis a company of a foreign country boycotting its product and then when conditions are favorable, you buy it.
morally makes it reflect. . .

then for the rest I agree on average.

 

[tecnico_plast]

So should the sale of the spartans to the afgan air force, in which the usaf was an intermediary?

 

[Exatem]

So should the sale of the spartans to the afgan air force, in which the usaf was an intermediary?

also skip the refurbished g222. . .

 

[Er Presidente]

because when you buy a complex system like a weapon system, you select what meets the requirements.
currently the specification of the American race, responded only the spartan, a cargo plane that pilots as a much lighter aircraft.
watch this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oosocxzb5nkBut it is clear that, in order to facilitate the national industry, a great deal has been digested to our aircraft.
Maybe you put in crisis a company of a foreign country boycotting its product and then when conditions are favorable, you buy it.
morally makes it reflect. . .

then for the rest I agree on average.

lmatts (lockheed martin alenia tactical transport systems) is the consortium that sells spartans, constituted precisely to sell them in america (they do not buy "roba" foreign).
the consortium was born in the early 1990s, perhaps with the withdrawal from the Iraqi no longer needed to "compensate" the partners as the then American president did.