insulatory

[mainagioia]

Good morning.
I am a student in mechanical engineering and I would like an opinion on a specific technique that we are doing, in my case on a sausage and sausage bag. after establishing the various needs I have difficulty finding data on the pressures necessary to make good sausages and the speed of extrusion of the meat, so I was wondering if someone has already found himself designing similar stuff and knows how to give me indication on the values or at least on what model to use to calculate them (I tried to shoot hourly productivity or assimilate the meat to a very high viscosity fluid but not convince me). I had found on the web that to taste meat it takes between 1 and 5 bars, only that then I saw automatic sausages for sale working with 120 bars and I don't know what fish to take. Let me know what you think, thank you.

 

[Marco F inox]

the system in use for a long time for the insulators, even for the private, is that of the use of a screw inside the cylinder, with the ejection cone much smaller.
this allows continuous work, as the power is transversal and does not interfere with the moving organs.
with the dimensions of the cylinder, hazelnut and pitch of the auger, rotation speed and expulsion diameter, at full load, you can calculate an initial and final hypothetical pressure.
It seems exaggerated to me a pressure of 120 bar, but it can also be.

 

[mainagioia]

the system in use for a long time for the insulators, even for the private, is that of the use of a screw inside the cylinder, with the ejection cone much smaller.
this allows continuous work, as the power is transversal and does not interfere with the moving organs.
with the dimensions of the cylinder, hazelnut and pitch of the auger, rotation speed and expulsion diameter, at full load, you can calculate an initial and final hypothetical pressure.
It seems exaggerated to me a pressure of 120 bar, but it can also be.

Good morning.
Actually in specification I should only write what the pill has to do and not how it has to do it. but beyond this using the coclee to estimate the pressures in play that data I insert? of the series, with what speed enters the meat in the gut? (I would have estimated a 0.7 m/s but I do not know if it is reliable). the output diameter I estimated it between 2 and 10 cm based on what I am producing, by number of laps of the augmentation or in case of piston as speed of advancement but above all strength and pressure I have no idea how to estimate. Thank you.

 

[cacciatorino]

Don't you have a chance to go make reliefs on a real car? then consider that while you make a ciauscle or sausage you will have huge load losses among the points where you insert the product and the one where it comes out. Once I saw a machine that did that job and the output of the product was atmospheric pressure, i.e. there was no counterpression at the exit and all the packing of the product was due to the chopping of the exit nozzle.

 

[@ndreaR]

the legendary ciauscle il

 

[Marco F inox]

considering that the product n output, it expands immediately and completely fills the casing, starting from a diameter of the nozzle of 30 mm. section 15*15*3,14 = 706,5 mm square.
even the output speed of 0.8 m/ sec seems acceptable to me, so you can calculate the volume
of flesh coming out in a second. 0,8m/sec = 8 decimeters/sec.
706,5 square mm =0,07065 square dm, for which 0.07065 * 8 = 0,56 cubic dm.
with the volume weight of the product, you can calculate the actual weight shifted in a second.
However, this is a horizontal shift, one can take into account the friction alone, but not excessive, as the product easily occupies the spaces granted.
behaves like a dense fluid.
thinking of using a piston inside a cylinder of 84 mm. you will have an area of:
42*42*3,14 = 5539 square mm, equivalent to 0.5539 square dm.
dividing the volume for this number, you get the piston stroke:
0.56 : 0.5539 = 1 decimeter.
hypothesized that it serves a force f of 400 newtons of thrust, the pressure is calculated, dividing it by the surface of 5539 square mm,
multiplying f for the race, you already have the power absorbed in a second.
by multiplying the power and pressure for a logical coefficient that takes into account the performance, you have the data to be required to the motor pump.

 

[cacciatorino]

considering that the product n output, it expands immediately and completely fills the casing, starting from a diameter of the nozzle of 30 mm. section 15*15*3,14 = 706,5 mm square.
even the output speed of 0.8 m/ sec seems acceptable to me, so you can calculate the volume
of flesh coming out in a second. 0,8m/sec = 8 decimeters/sec.
706,5 square mm =0,07065 square dm, for which 0.07065 * 8 = 0,56 cubic dm.
with the volume weight of the product, you can calculate the actual weight shifted in a second.
However, this is a horizontal shift, one can take into account the friction alone, but not excessive, as the product easily occupies the spaces granted.
behaves like a dense fluid.
thinking of using a piston inside a cylinder of 84 mm. you will have an area of:
42*42*3,14 = 5539 square mm, equivalent to 0.5539 square dm.
dividing the volume for this number, you get the piston stroke:
0.56 : 0.5539 = 1 decimeter.
hypothesized that it serves a force f of 400 newtons of thrust, the pressure is calculated, dividing it by the surface of 5539 square mm,
multiplying f for the race, you already have the power absorbed in a second.
by multiplying the power and pressure for a logical coefficient that takes into account the performance, you have the data to be required to the motor pump.

But don't these machines use a coclee normally?

 

[Marco F inox]

But he didn't like it much.
with the piston then I would like to know how it does continuous loading.

 

[mainagioia]

Good afternoon,
more than anything else I saw on youtube that mostly automatic or manual machines that are using pistons and I was interested in understanding what pressure it takes. I also thought about the ciauscle and I estimated more or less those diameters. I watched videos on yt of people using manuals and seeing spins per second of crank and the speed of piston advancement I estimated that it operates between 1 and 3.6 bar according to the force impressed by the operator. However there is on the internet a type of sausage that appoints 120 bars of plumbing but 560 w of power and do not understand how it is possible. speculating that that power goes all to the piston, as it says that it puts 51 seconds to empty it means that it goes to about 0,0098 m/s and that considering the size (64×48×116 I hypothesized therefore for the cylinder 0.3 m in diameter and 0.5 m in height this has vertical development)means 57142,85 n of strength for that power, which considering the bulk is 8,08 bar in pressure (the capacity is 35 liters). So where are the 120? because with the clearing times declared with 120 bars I should have a power of 2943.75 w considering the slowest emptying time declared i.e. 2 minutes and 2 seconds. if you care about it is the felsinea 35 liters. not to mention the fact of trying to treat the minced meat as a viscosity fluid 2000 cp and to estimate localized and distributed losses through darcy but it is a mess and I got unreliable results 1,04 bar of pressure and a 30 ina of n of force. I don't know what else to make up.

 

[cacciatorino]

I think you don't have to consider 120 bars on the piston. Maybe the hydraulic cylinder is a d20 and pushes a pre-pack d100, from which the 120 bars of oil in theory can become 5 bars on the meat.

 

[meccanicamg]

But he didn't like it much.
with the piston then I would like to know how it does continuous loading.

it will be intermittent loading with the piston....unless it invents something to match it to a second piston to be made.... but always intermittent will be.

 

[stevie]

0,7 m/s as meat output speed seems to me a crazy value, I would be more likely for a 0.1
Max. . .
the insulators exist both piston (for small batches of production and craft processing) and a screw for large industrial productions.

 

[Marco F inox]

I think you don't have to consider 120 bars on the piston. Maybe the hydraulic cylinder is a d20 and pushes a pre-pack d100, from which the 120 bars of oil in theory can become 5 bars on the meat.

provided that in a closed environment, like that of a hydraulic piston, the pressure is distributed evenly on different surfaces, what can change, in this case, is the thrust or force of thrust, which depends on the diameter of the stem, drowned in the oil, and the diameter of the cylinder, or piston as you better understand.
everything is bound by the formula: force / surface = pressure.

 

[cacciatorino]

provided that in a closed environment, like that of a hydraulic piston, the pressure is distributed evenly on different surfaces, what can change, in this case, is the thrust or force of thrust, which depends on the diameter of the stem, drowned in the oil, and the diameter of the cylinder, or piston as you better understand.
everything is bound by the formula: force / surface = pressure.

I imagined a system like that where there's a pressure reduction in the two rooms.

 

[Marco F inox]

I imagined a system like that where there's a pressure reduction in the two rooms.
View attachment 68428

the oleodynamic system can only be so.
as you want a certain output diameter and a speed of the product, I would start by hypothesize them a diameter of the container to find the necessary force.
this will be the same force that the oil will exert on the piston,
the cylinder will then double effect.

 

[mainagioia]

I hypothesized 4-5 bars to extrude meat in a 15-litre pill, what's enough? How's the pressure?

 

[Marco F inox]

I hypothesized 4-5 bars to extrude meat in a 15-litre pill, what's enough? How's the pressure?

In the event that the enclosure is constituted by a cylinder, the p pressure is linked to the thrust force f and the surface of the cylinder circle s, by this formula: p = f / s.
15 liters are the volume of the compartment containing the meat, but what is the diameter?
without this value you do not make calculations, but you can only hypothesize.

 

[mainagioia]

In the event that the enclosure is constituted by a cylinder, the p pressure is linked to the thrust force f and the surface of the cylinder circle s, by this formula: p = f / s.
15 liters are the volume of the compartment containing the meat, but what is the diameter?
without this value you do not make calculations, but you can only hypothesize.

yes the formula I know too but the problem is that I'm planning and I don't have the data. for that I should start with what pressure it takes to extrude and find a section and force that allow me to exercise it.

 

[TETRASTORE]

as has been said in previous posts there are various models of enclosures, from industrial ones to amateur ones for domestic use, electric with single and bi-vite extruders for a high continuous or oleodynamic production.
I would turn myself on this last type model This is used in small laboratories.
I would evaluate the indicative dimensions of the cylinder and piston (relevating them from the drawing) and as regards the pressure I would elapse from the performance of a commercial hydraulic control unit with one of the powers indicated in the manual I indicated to you; In this way, knowing the output diameter and the min/max pressure exerted on the piston section, you can also obtain the extrusion force.
As a speed, I would not exceed 0.1 m/s.

 

[Marco F inox]

yes the formula I know too but the problem is that I'm planning and I don't have the data. for that I should start with what pressure it takes to extrude and find a section and force that allow me to exercise it.

when designing, to make calculations it takes data, those indispensable, or real and known or presumed.
with different hypotheses, you make calculations and it occurs if everything can be real, feasible and acceptable.