motor advice

[cacciatorino]

- create glasses to accommodate the bearing+tenuta+coperchio or complete hub easily interchangeable

This is always a great idea, especially on very large and heavy bases. otherwise in case of gripping the bearing that goes to "currency" the surface of the watering for all hours passing between the fault and when it notices, the repair would be very expensive.

 

[sampom]

linch, sampom
you are invited to close the "diatriba",
If you want, please, do it in private!
Thank you.
Sandra

 

[MBT]

This is always a great idea, especially on very large and heavy bases. otherwise in case of gripping the bearing that goes to "currency" the surface of the watering for all hours passing between the fault and when it notices, the repair would be very expensive.

It is a great idea, with the inconvenience that the centerpieces begin to become "second hand". . .

 

[MBT]

Hopefully you can be useful, this is a section of a "heavy duty" reducer. . .

 

[meccanicamg]

It is a great idea, with the inconvenience that the centerpieces begin to become "second hand". . .

if the centering flanges are made of steel with a surface hardness lower than those of cast iron or of the case material in general, it is possible to replace all the complete package without damaging the fusion (which is the most expensive part compared to 1 bearing + possible seal + centering flange + or)... of course the centrings throw away

 

[MBT]

if the centering flanges are made of steel with a surface hardness lower than those of cast iron or of the case material in general, it is possible to replace all the complete package without damaging the fusion (which is the most expensive part compared to 1 bearing + possible seal + centering flange + or)... of course the centrings throw away

I'm sorry.
I meant "second hand" to say that instead of the "direct" centering (sede-cuscinetto) you have a "indirect" centering (sede-boccola / boccola-cuscinetto) with relative sum of errors and tolerances

 

[meccanicamg]

I'm sorry.
I meant "second hand" to say that instead of the "direct" centering (sede-cuscinetto) you have a "indirect" centering (sede-boccola / boccola-cuscinetto) with relative sum of errors and tolerances

Yes, in this sense. I obviously have an extra component subjected to errors and tolerances. If an estimate of the desired and accessible requirements is made for the application, it can also be satisfied with a few tenths, admitted and granted that the application provides it.

 

[linch]

lip oil in the lids must have a joke, you cannot keep the same thickness as you did. mount them from the inside of the cover so that they can not be expelled outward.
and yes, the contact surfaces on the shaft should be rectified (as well as, as a rule, those of the bearings) but it is true that the turning today from excellent finishes. . material chosen for the trees? and size?


greetings
Marco:smile:

the oil lamps must be mounted with a slight interference on the seat of the flange, it is useful but not indispensable therefore that they have a joke on the same.(for dimensional and geometric tolerances seat, see site skf).
correct grinding of the sliding area.
suggestion:
mount double lip seals, ensure a much better seal, and lubrication (fat) between the two seals greatly reduces rotation friction.

 

[cacciatorino]

It is a great idea, with the inconvenience that the centerpieces begin to become "second hand". . .

correct, costs and benefits must be assessed.... :wink:

 

[cacciatorino]

the oil must be mounted with a slight interference on the seat of the flange, it is useful but not indispensable therefore that they have a joke on it.

Agreed with you, if the internal pressure is low. If it's high of course things change, then you can handle a seeger as you do on the motorcycle forks. the fact of not "imprisoning" the oil also makes it easier to replace.

 

[linch]

Agreed with you, if the internal pressure is low. If it's high of course things change, then you can handle a seeger as you do on the motorcycle forks. the fact of not "imprisoning" the oil also makes it easier to replace.

right,but I remind you that we are talking about gears to "oil bag",so no overpression inside.the oil generally covers part of the lower cup,and if the application is this,it would be necessary to mount also an oil level spy,but maybe we are going too far on the thin.
I repeat the double lip seals regularly on grease-lubricated conical bearings that reach very high speeds and temperatures, they have never caused me problems.periodally you have to replace them, but if mounted correctly it is a moment.
Say hi.

 

[ste8]

Hello, ste8,
I made you a sketch for some additions or changes. If you want to reengineer the gearbox and always leave long trees bringing everything to a smaller thickness you can do it.

- decrease thickness
- create glasses to accommodate the bearing+tenuta+coperchio or complete hub easily interchangeable
- create triangular ribs where the structure is weak (the ribbed resists more than one smooth especially in bending along the thin wall)

I also remind you that if the case is made by merging in the ground or other merging processes, you will have some corners of the sform. keep in mind the surfaces to work later (as indicated) and above all the parallel relations between the planes and between the axes, then the positioning of the bearing seats and reference thorns/mounting.

I attach pdf of the sketch.

Hello, thank you.
I attach you to the work pictures after following your advice!
Tell me if it's okay!

 

[cacciatorino]

Hello, thank you.
I attach you to the work pictures after following your advice!
Tell me if it's okay!

You have improved a lot, congratulations.

now another shortness:

bearings, as they are mounted, do not allow axial expansion of the shaft. you should mount one locked axially and the other free on each tree, this for two reasons:

1) Due to processing tolerances, you may find yourself with a tree a little longer than expected or with the crates a little more closed, so the bearings would work by forcing (heating and premature wear).

2) during operation, it is probable that the pair of gears will transmit heat to the trees causing a heating and therefore elongation, with the same problem as in point 1.

to obviate to this, as said, you should block a bearing axially and the other keep it free. To do that, you better keep the inner rings fixed on the trees, and let the outside ring move a little bit. This is because the rings that rotate compared to the load, in this case the inner ones, must be always stuck on the trees, by interference or using frontal needles (for example, the seegers you put seem a little weak).

I attach a drawing of an application made a few years ago, you don't find many shortcomings as it was a prototype for which the duration was not very important.

Bye.

 

[cacciatorino]

Hello, thank you.
I attach you to the work pictures after following your advice!
Tell me if it's okay!

ah, a serious mistake:

the axial thrust of the conical couple ends up on the ball bearing instead of on the roller one!

 

[ste8]

ah, a serious mistake:

the axial thrust of the conical couple ends up on the ball bearing instead of on the roller one!

I don't know if it's a statement! I mean, you say it's wrong to hold the axial thrust of the conical wheel to the roller bearing?
If so, as I said above, this was verified with the help of skf software for calculating the equivalent load and duration using that load!

 

[cacciatorino]

I don't know if it's a statement! I mean, you say it's wrong to hold the axial thrust of the conical wheel to the roller bearing?
If so, as I said above, this was verified with the help of skf software for calculating the equivalent load and duration using that load!

If you checked it then it's okay.

 

[ste8]

You have improved a lot, congratulations.

now another shortness:

bearings, as they are mounted, do not allow axial expansion of the shaft. you should mount one locked axially and the other free on each tree, this for two reasons:

1) Due to processing tolerances, you may find yourself with a tree a little longer than expected or with the crates a little more closed, so the bearings would work by forcing (heating and premature wear).

2) during operation, it is probable that the pair of gears will transmit heat to the trees causing a heating and therefore elongation, with the same problem as in point 1.

to obviate to this, as said, you should block a bearing axially and the other keep it free. To do that, you better keep the inner rings fixed on the trees, and let the outside ring move a little bit. This is because the rings that rotate compared to the load, in this case the inner ones, must be always stuck on the trees, by interference or using frontal needles (for example, the seegers you put seem a little weak).

I attach a drawing of an application made a few years ago, you don't find many shortcomings as it was a prototype for which the duration was not very important.

Bye.

thanks for the compliments,
and thank you especially for your precious advice, you are helping me a lot and I am learning a lot from you!

returning to the drawing I attach an image of the tree below (which I will call tree 2). only of this tree will have to insert tolerances and quotas.
However, before proceeding, I have to remove doubts:

1) where there is the yellow arrow on the left, it must be removed the seeger and also the shoulder (if called so!) at the top left of the cover, right? All this to leave this free bearing, right?

2) where there is the red arrow is the wheel force zone, so I imagine that in this area the tree should be rectified; now, to what type of processing corresponds the grinding: it5?, it6? and therefore, if I have to guarantee an effective interference of 104,1 microns I had thought of a coupling h7/x7, but the grinding is still contemplated by this coupling?
And then, if the rectification is done, I have to put in a drain throat, right?

3) where finally there is the green arrow on the right, I have to insert something to lock the bearing, right? advice?

Thank you so much!
Hi.

 

[sampom]

thanks for the compliments,
and thank you especially for your precious advice, you are helping me a lot and I am learning a lot from you!

returning to the drawing I attach an image of the tree below (which I will call tree 2). only of this tree will have to insert tolerances and quotas.
However, before proceeding, I have to remove doubts:

1) where there is the yellow arrow on the left, it must be removed the seeger and also the shoulder (if called so!) at the top left of the cover, right? All this to leave this free bearing, right?

2) where there is the red arrow is the wheel force zone, so I imagine that in this area the tree should be rectified; now, to what type of processing corresponds the grinding: it5?, it6? and therefore, if I have to guarantee an effective interference of 104,1 microns I had thought of a coupling h7/x7, but the grinding is still contemplated by this coupling?
And then, if the rectification is done, I have to put in a drain throat, right?

3) where finally there is the green arrow on the right, I have to insert something to lock the bearing, right? advice?

Thank you so much!
Hi.

Yes.
However, the bearings were not to be carried inside the flanges/covers, but to be in line on the outer ring (at least 1.. the other goes free axially). so you have created "extractable support" and should treat flange tolerances, dimensional and geometric (the bearing inside the flange and flange inside the hole in the box). . look at the pdf that put you hunting just above.

1) no. we said that the ring with the rotating load will be blocked, in this case the insides on the tree. the yellow arrow seeger leaves it (although it would not be necessary because you then have to lock the bearing on the right), the flangetta shouldering moves it out (here you could also remove it). Axial freedom remains on the outer ring where you will have "wider tolerances".

2) Yes, "will be" rectified. grinding is used to bring you a high finish and you can do it on any dimensional scale, facilitating the control/maintenance of particularly tight tolerances compared to turning (but we said that you can satisfy the same in practice).
Yeah, the way the tree is, it needs an exhaust throat. you can remove the central diameter and hold the wheel spaced from the bearing with a "tube". the wheel range will have a slightly greater diameter and on that stretch do the grinding without the problem of going to "cut" against the shoulder.

3) Yes, the bearing on the right there is locked axially, inside and out.
will depend on the magnitude of the reaction force on the conical wheel, but probably (as hunting said) a seeger on the inner ring may not be enough. you could use a wreath and/or bearing with conical compass (usually refer to pdf hunting.:smile.

besides completely blocking the large right roller swivel bearing avoids to load axially the left ball bearing. even if you have verified it, and it is true that in the least part it also holds axial loads, when possible it is better to make it work for what it is.. radialSo. .

greetings
Marco:smile:

 

[ste8]

Yes.
However, the bearings were not to be carried inside the flanges/covers, but to be in line on the outer ring (at least 1.. the other goes free axially). so you have created "extractable support" and should treat flange tolerances, dimensional and geometric (the bearing inside the flange and flange inside the hole in the box). . look at the pdf that put you hunting just above.

1) no. we said that the ring with the rotating load will be blocked, in this case the insides on the tree. the yellow arrow seeger leaves it (although it would not be necessary because you then have to lock the bearing on the right), the flangetta shouldering moves it out (here you could also remove it). Axial freedom remains on the outer ring where you will have "wider tolerances".

2) Yes, "will be" rectified. grinding is used to bring you a high finish and you can do it on any dimensional scale, facilitating the control/maintenance of particularly tight tolerances compared to turning (but we said that you can satisfy the same in practice).
Yeah, the way the tree is, it needs an exhaust throat. you can remove the central diameter and hold the wheel spaced from the bearing with a "tube". the wheel range will have a slightly greater diameter and on that stretch do the grinding without the problem of going to "cut" against the shoulder.

3) Yes, the bearing on the right there is locked axially, inside and out.
will depend on the magnitude of the reaction force on the conical wheel, but probably (as hunting said) a seeger on the inner ring may not be enough. you could use a wreath and/or bearing with conical compass (usually refer to pdf hunting.:smile.

besides completely blocking the large right roller swivel bearing avoids to load axially the left ball bearing. even if you have verified it, and it is true that in the least part it also holds axial loads, when possible it is better to make it work for what it is.. radialSo. .

greetings
Marco:smile:

Hi.
regarding the first part, I followed the advice of mechanicsmg on page 3 (there is a sketch in pdf).
1) ok
2) ok, made the exhaust throat and chosen coupling h7/x6.
3) I am not convinced to put the wreath, for various reasons, first of all the space that I want to occupy! I have inserted a seeger, also because the axial force is rather low compared to the other reactions!

put the images of the 2 trees, hoping to have understood your advice well!
Hello and thank you!

 

[sampom]

Hi.
regarding the first part, I followed the advice of mechanicsmg on page 3 (there is a sketch in pdf).

What do you want? but you get the costs.

and the offices or move them more towards "the tip", not so directly close to the flange. (as I posted you in that example flange image)
risk that the or are "pizzichino" in the edge of the hole or, if the edge soaks it too, that they do not lay "correctly crushed" to hold.
and it's easier to make the cutting at the lathe if you're not really attached to a "wall"... and you have to respect the predetermined dimensions to make those locations; check the catalogues.

greetings
Mar