antonio_sc
Guest
hi,that I know when it comes to drilling often (but not always) you use oleo-pneumatic hybrid systems, I carry what is displayed on catalog tiremax (where, among other things, the example of puncture is mentioned):
meccanicamg
Guest
exact, the basic solution in automation and assembly is the hydropneumatic press.
then those who want more sophisticated things use the electric axis.
we were looking for an even cheaper solution than the first seen that however it is a puncture of some mm of depth.
even when I ran out the 30mm squares with convex cutter I used the hydropneumatic drilling machines in the automatic machine that made the blocks for extra transport chains....but the vibrations were very strong and I needed something robust.
here we are with hole 5.5mm and draining 10mm.
TECNOMODEL
Guest
and with this we definitively affect certain theories felt in this thread.
unless you want to give incompetents also to pneumax
exxon
Guest
I would rather avoid quoting the thing to not give the impression of using the site for commercial purposes, but after reading some prices in previous posts, I think it is correct to point out that talking about 3000 euros for a movement like that suggested by me is simply ridiculous.
one of the companies of our group, based in austria, designs, builds and markets linear motion units with brushless motor and vector control (retroacted).
a suitable product has the following features:
race: 50 mm
Axial force continues: 200
impulsive axial force (t < 10 s, d < 10 %): 450
resolution: 0.5 micron
full load repeatability: ±0.02 mm
Quick: 15 m/min
stiffness: 10 mn/m
This is a monolithic product with movement on ball circulation skates, step screw 5 mm with circulation of balls and preloaded supports. brushless motor with 4000 step/turn encoder. precision magnetic limit switch for emergency and homing. vector control with attached plc control. position setting capacity, speed, acceleration, and jerk directly to control. measure of advancement effort with adjustable alarm thresholds.
with the product above you can make the required drill, without any compromise and, through the measure of effort you can also keep under control the sharpening of the tool. with these units and a vector control spindle, always of our production, have been made of machines for rigid mapping in line. all components are lubricated at life and do not require maintenance. You don't need compressed air, you don't need oil, that's all.
price: 590 euro.
one of the companies of our group, based in austria, designs, builds and markets linear motion units with brushless motor and vector control (retroacted).
a suitable product has the following features:
race: 50 mm
Axial force continues: 200
impulsive axial force (t < 10 s, d < 10 %): 450
resolution: 0.5 micron
full load repeatability: ±0.02 mm
Quick: 15 m/min
stiffness: 10 mn/m
This is a monolithic product with movement on ball circulation skates, step screw 5 mm with circulation of balls and preloaded supports. brushless motor with 4000 step/turn encoder. precision magnetic limit switch for emergency and homing. vector control with attached plc control. position setting capacity, speed, acceleration, and jerk directly to control. measure of advancement effort with adjustable alarm thresholds.
with the product above you can make the required drill, without any compromise and, through the measure of effort you can also keep under control the sharpening of the tool. with these units and a vector control spindle, always of our production, have been made of machines for rigid mapping in line. all components are lubricated at life and do not require maintenance. You don't need compressed air, you don't need oil, that's all.
price: 590 euro.
meccanicamg
Guest
simplified construction for drilling:
pneumatic cylinder 35€
depreciation ace 47€
hardened bars and sleeves 40€
4 pieces aluminum worked to make axis and door drill 110€
brown bolts and cemented thorns 10€
design 100€
mounting 35€total €377optional:
painting or anodizing 50€
Additional flow regulators 12€/pz
spring for axle load increase by contrast 8€
pneumatic system complete with 24vdc solenoid valve and inductive finish 70€
total maximum 517€anyone can adjust the axis and change running, speed and performance without using plc, pc, relae.... and is designed to fit for that application... then engineering only pays it on the first product.
if you then put them in, you still save us unn70/80€ per unit.
Do you want to put the convenience of a cut screwdriver and a 19 English key?
pneumatic cylinder 35€
depreciation ace 47€
hardened bars and sleeves 40€
4 pieces aluminum worked to make axis and door drill 110€
brown bolts and cemented thorns 10€
design 100€
mounting 35€total €377optional:
painting or anodizing 50€
Additional flow regulators 12€/pz
spring for axle load increase by contrast 8€
pneumatic system complete with 24vdc solenoid valve and inductive finish 70€
total maximum 517€anyone can adjust the axis and change running, speed and performance without using plc, pc, relae.... and is designed to fit for that application... then engineering only pays it on the first product.
if you then put them in, you still save us unn70/80€ per unit.
Do you want to put the convenience of a cut screwdriver and a 19 English key?
stevie
Guest
Mecca you're tall, I believe a system like that to develop it to 300 euros finished. for lots of 10 pcs you could get to 250.
then I'm curious to see with 590 what they give you, with that money you barely buy the 250w engine package and drive. You miss all the rest, electric picture included.
You realize I just developed a similar system but from 1 kw. the motor + drive group cost me 1000 euros (Italian quality product). for the electric picture with quality plc and software and touch panel I spent on 2000 .
meccanicamg
Guest
I also believe that I could develop it without what I proposed but I put un Discounted prices, as if the first passing goes into the tool shop and buys things at the counter...my make them the discount.
with 300/350€ you should be able to make the pneumatic axis ready to accommodate the drill.
welcome to the machine
Guest
mechanics, so much for curiosity, why is this no longer a technical discussion, than dn of cylinder you were considering?
meccanicamg
Guest
I was thinking about a 63
meccanicamg
Guest
if we look at the drilling units that This is what company proposes are of different types: from what we describe to that only with pneumatic axis. They're not all with the alarm on their necks.
nice unit with adjustable brake
that only spread with cylinder
if you engage, a little more brute than these but cheaper you can do.
nice unit with adjustable brake
that only spread with cylinderif you engage, a little more brute than these but cheaper you can do.welcome to the machine
Guest
The sharpest of the drylin guide of the igus, which barely puts the tip rests and does a bit of lever, it is difficult
. but if they did it will obviously work. the cylinder put it almost in a board at the cart not by chance.
of the first unit I did not understand what the progress commanded. I think there is a pneumatic cylinder on the unseen side and the n°3 is a hydraulic brake. Right?
However many misunderstandings of this discussion were born when I, in one of the very first posts, objected that a 20 or 25 mm cylinder like that of the first photo posted by mecanicamg might not have been enough to control alone the movement of the tip and I would have put a larger one. I never had....:lol:
Mr dn 63 fully agrees to me, much less on the other hand the way in which this discussion has been dealt with itself, which could also be interesting if conducted with more mutual respect.
. but if they did it will obviously work. the cylinder put it almost in a board at the cart not by chance.of the first unit I did not understand what the progress commanded. I think there is a pneumatic cylinder on the unseen side and the n°3 is a hydraulic brake. Right?
However many misunderstandings of this discussion were born when I, in one of the very first posts, objected that a 20 or 25 mm cylinder like that of the first photo posted by mecanicamg might not have been enough to control alone the movement of the tip and I would have put a larger one. I never had....:lol:
Mr dn 63 fully agrees to me, much less on the other hand the way in which this discussion has been dealt with itself, which could also be interesting if conducted with more mutual respect.
meccanicamg
Guest
exact there is the pneumatic cylinder behind and the adjustable front hydraulic brake.The sharpest of the drylin guide of the igus, which barely puts the tip rests and does a bit of lever, it is difficult
of the first unit I did not understand what the progress commanded. I think there is a pneumatic cylinder on the unseen side and the n°3 is a hydraulic brake. Right?
However many misunderstandings of this discussion were born when I, in one of the very first posts, objected that a 20 or 25 mm cylinder like that of the first photo posted by mecanicamg might not have been enough to control alone the movement of the tip and I would have put a larger one. I never had....:lol:
Mr dn 63 fully agrees to me, much less on the other hand the way in which this discussion has been dealt with itself, which could also be interesting if conducted with more mutual respect.
Sure that it was better to post some ideas and reason on it rather than to make useless tones degenerate. The medal doesn't give it to anyone.
exxon
Guest
This discussion becomes more and more interesting. . we summarize:
#1 darior. puts a question clearly and circumstantial.
#2 Mechanicalmg proposes its solution of an exclusively pneumatic actuator (with lots of photos).
#3 exxon points out that the proposed solution cannot work and that the state of art (as well as the cheapest solution) is electric motorization.
#3-#60 unleashed hell against what exxon said.
#61 antonio_sc publishes a pneumax text in which it is stated (implicitly) that exclusively pneumatic systems are not applicable in situations such as that in question.
#62 Mechanicalmg quotes the previous message, stating that the correct solution is the oleopneumatic system or electric motorization.
#63 technomodel welcomes, stevie welcomes.
to the face of coherence!
Now the question moves on costs and... What to reappear? The damper!
we see what happens by reasserting (for the second time) that by coupling a pneumatic actuator with a dampener you do not get the operation of an oleopneumatic system. . .
controller
cables already heading
development software
application example already installed
power cord complete with schuko plug for functional verification
insert the connectors, connect the plug to the socket and the sleigh goes back and forth.
for our customers is also included handshake.
Note: It is correct to point out that the first proposal for a working solution was welcome to the machine in #6 that proposed a hydropneumatic system.
#1 darior. puts a question clearly and circumstantial.
#2 Mechanicalmg proposes its solution of an exclusively pneumatic actuator (with lots of photos).
#3 exxon points out that the proposed solution cannot work and that the state of art (as well as the cheapest solution) is electric motorization.
#3-#60 unleashed hell against what exxon said.
#61 antonio_sc publishes a pneumax text in which it is stated (implicitly) that exclusively pneumatic systems are not applicable in situations such as that in question.
#62 Mechanicalmg quotes the previous message, stating that the correct solution is the oleopneumatic system or electric motorization.
#63 technomodel welcomes, stevie welcomes.
to the face of coherence!
Now the question moves on costs and... What to reappear? The damper!
we see what happens by reasserting (for the second time) that by coupling a pneumatic actuator with a dampener you do not get the operation of an oleopneumatic system. . .
unit of movement including motor
controller
cables already heading
development software
application example already installed
power cord complete with schuko plug for functional verification
insert the connectors, connect the plug to the socket and the sleigh goes back and forth.
for our customers is also included handshake.
Note: It is correct to point out that the first proposal for a working solution was welcome to the machine in #6 that proposed a hydropneumatic system.
cacciatorino
Guest
it would always be desirable to indicate the commercial references of the mentioned products, as an opportunity of knowledge for the other mebers of the forum. I therefore invite you to indicate the brand and model of the group.
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exxon
Guest
khonn gmbh
arnoldstein at
p/n 36194
p/c kst40-050050-p2n-saa
arnoldstein at
p/n 36194
p/c kst40-050050-p2n-saa
cacciatorino
Guest
but is it a custom product? on the site I find things that have nothing to do with what you described. does not exist a catalog in pdf or similar?
exxon
Guest
who is interested sends a request and gets the information you are looking for.
+forte
Guest
on the site of arnoldstein at khonn gmbh electronic controllers hvac
while codes report to parker products
while codes report to parker products
exxon
Guest
perfect, then don't send any mail, so you don't waste time from either side.
stevie
Guest
That's boring, guys. .
from a short search on the internet turns out that the company cited (other than unknown in the automations sector, I don't want the interested party, I will be ignorant even if I doubt, of course we don't talk about a colossus able to compete with players like omron, mitsubishi, siemens, etc...) realizes solutions oem for you do not know well what.
but at least from the site certainly does not transpose a leadership in the automation & control sector.. .
Besides, the company should be a subsidiary of another leading company in the led lighting industry.
to close the circle the reference numbers are related to pneumatic valves parker.. .
in any way turnkey solutions for drilling I do not see, you?
from a short search on the internet turns out that the company cited (other than unknown in the automations sector, I don't want the interested party, I will be ignorant even if I doubt, of course we don't talk about a colossus able to compete with players like omron, mitsubishi, siemens, etc...) realizes solutions oem for you do not know well what.
but at least from the site certainly does not transpose a leadership in the automation & control sector.. .
Besides, the company should be a subsidiary of another leading company in the led lighting industry.
to close the circle the reference numbers are related to pneumatic valves parker.. .
in any way turnkey solutions for drilling I do not see, you?