Tequila
Guest
Surely he's seen worse, only I don't want to throw kerosene on the fire to avoid:angry:
The_Matrix
Guest
Tequila,
you can't think of a profitable and fearful discussion on a forum with 2 vendors involved and phrases like those called by gtemp and hunter.
If you want to understand something more about pdm/plm etc, write me in private... free from interference on "celodurism", I can better explain the various aspects of this fascinating discipline.
I'm discussing with the torino pole how to introduce this topic into the graduation thesis, so I'm quite "affirmed"...:finger:
The_Matrix
Guest
Maybe even remember you're a moderator?
I was removed (or I am self-removed, boh, who remembers it more...) by moderator of the ug forum for less direct sentences.
Anyway, who cares?
Fortunately for someone who thinks that siemens is a cove of thieves who do not take into account the needs of users, who are many who think that siemens is a reliable company and that provides solutions to the state of art.
Lucky for me, of course
Tequila
Guest
in fact here I give you reason, when it is now I will contact you in addition to the dealer who treats you as well as other solutions.
Hi.
The_Matrix
Guest
before contacting sellers/resellers etc, make your own culture.
You will avoid falling into clamorous errors.
You know, like those who used autocads... me10, gbg... they saw a demo of pro/e that from the table modified model, assembly, mold, cam, cae, bank account of the sister of the cam... and spent tons of € convinced that along with pro/e the magic button red.
Parametric_Ozzy
Guest
The_Matrix
Guest
Big ozzy.
You're a man who understood everything from me...
in my team you would be perfect.
Parametric_Ozzy
Guest
What are you doing? :biggrin:Big ozzy.
You're a man who understood everything from me...
in my team you would be perfect.
as I always tell you my battle horse.
It is a dirty job but someone has to do it.:tongue:
re_solidworks
Guest
and how does a user approach the pdm to become his own culture? will have enough experience to judge after a couple of years of use and unfortunately this choice is always a jump in the void and trusts the dealer in turn hoping it is not a dishonest.
this for all the pMS, from what I have seen so far.
a "mother home" should give more guarantees than a dealer as the image damage from dissatisfaction would produce greater damage.
Tequila
Guest
That's what I'm trying to do, and I was hoping for this discussion, but it's not. I will have to look for other sources of information, without going through the official sites that obscure their products as the ancients worshipped their gods.
The_Matrix
Guest
In my opinion, you underestimate people's abilities.
because a technician, flanked by a computer, should not be able to judge if a plm system is suitable for your needs?
As for the second part of your speech... You don't agree with me at all.
sale is always a complex process and the technical part is not preponderant.
You can't think that a dealer comes to you to show you the "problems" or "idiosyncrasies" of his system.
The_Matrix
Guest
go see any discussion "I have to choose a cad, which I recommend" and see a little you if we get directions.
First of all you have to start from a deep examination of consciousness based on the flows of your company and the desire/need you have to improve them.
After that analysis, then you can understand what tool you need and, above all, how to implement it. . .
some examples:
- do you want to manage product requirements?
If you want to connect them to the cad?
If so, what source do you get?
- do you want to introduce model approval workflows/signs?
If so, how many signatures?
Do you want to automatically create the project documentation?
..... if yes, in what format? jt for 3d and pdf for 2d?
- do you want to manage technical project documentation (manualistic)?
... if yes, until what level? ftr for example?
etc. etc.
Tequila
Guest
in fact I know, indeed I am understanding in these days that on a forum of this kind unfortunately information on pdm is difficult if not impossible to answer in objective way.
with cad already the thing is slightly simpler, surely of the maximum information on which cad choose you can get if you already indicate this http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/showpost.php?p=215924&postcount=6 , then obviously one can be easier to use than another but if you need an extra gear the simplest one doesn't... maybe even the pdms are like that.
re_solidworks
Guest
the matrix, I think that the difference in our views shows the difference in our work experience. you more oriented to large companies, well structured and organized in a certain way, let's say that this selection also arises from the budget required for your solutions.
I, on the other hand, work and worked mostly in almost craft companies, say the classic Venetian company of 20/30 employees in which often and willingly the owners get dirty their hands together with the workers and there are no clear organizational rules.
the companies that I quote you do not have an it, usually one of the employees in some way also deals with it despite not having excellent skills in this matter.
the technician is normally working at 350% of his potential and it does not take anything that after two hours of demo you have to "stop a moment" to download a truck of material.
in these companies, if you like, you have one/two technicians who follow everything and not being infromatic can be easily radiated.
12 years ago together with solidworks we took dbworks and this case (for the pdm) was an exempt in which the commercial made budget and sold us a tool that has never been made to leave, even because the costs were not clear (of implementation) and because, perhaps, it was not the instrument suitable for us.
to change (to ready2works) we trusted another person again, the product made us hopefully because in the meantime the side cad had been assimilated and because we saw potential that helped us in our problems.
in the end, we took this road because before cuming they showed us and try the advantages, otherwise it would have been another jump "sperando che..."
I don't think I underestimate people and see who works in the ut I frequent I wouldn't make a pdm choice to any of them.
for me now it is easier, because with the hint of then everything is easy, for a new user I do not think it is so.
The_Matrix
Guest
If a user is unable to evaluate a pdm, then it is better to take a step back and the pdm just do not think to implement it.
I think the comparison with the 3d of 15 years ago is soothing.
If you had always used me10 and you don't know what the hell that colored model is doing on the video that then, with a magic becomes a 3d and you have 5 50-year-old collaborators who barely learned that system... but because divalo you want to board with pros, damn it.
if you are not a minimum structured mentally to adopt a pdm and, at the same time, change your processes, imho, let alone and continue with your beautiful cad on file system.
cacciatorino
Guest
time ago you had made a distinction between pdm and cad manager, perhaps it would be appropriate to start from this.
the small aziendina usually needs the second (example: "But this piece exists a rev.1?"), the big one instead needs more 'pumped performance, although to me the pdms that put the db projects do not like at all, risk being linked to the assistance of the pdm manufacturer to life. If the files remain on the file system, you're much more free.
The_Matrix
Guest
"I am sure that the pdms that put the db projects do not like at all, risk of being linked to the assistance of the pdm manufacturer to life. if the files remain on the file system, you are much more free"You know, exactly, what are you talking about?
do some examples (with products) for pleasure.
on your first distinction (cad manager... pdm... plm...) maybe you should make a list and put us close to membership. ... Try us from the list I propose, throw them, in order scattered... (put us for example cm/pdm/plm) using your experience on "middle/small" companies, so we have a point from which to start... and maybe you understand which product can be suitable and what not...
- requirement management
- "live" links of requirements with cad
- data management cad (vaulting)
- data management cad (revisions)
- data management cad (variants/product options)
- multi-cad management (how many cads? must they cooperate with each other? )
- creation of cad data (sheets, part list) from pdm data
- management workflow approval
- change management (eco, ecn, etc.)
- management of project planning
- management of multiple sites geographically distributed
- document management office
- suppliers management (competitive suppliers)
- management suppliers (make them work online on the project)
- Supplier management (administratively distributed suppliers)
- management of data
- management visibility between users ut on projects
- management of data visibility to other business departments (sales, suppliers, purchases, documentation)
- creation/management of standard documents 2d (pdf, tiff, hpgl)
- creation/management of standard documents 3d (jt)
- standard business model classification
- search for similar geometric patterns
- ebom/mbom management at ut level
- How many bom views do you need to handle?
- manufacturing management (installation cycles)
- manufacturing management (users)
- management manufacturing (integration of cam in pdm)
- manufacturing management (primary and secondary materials)
- management pdm interface (what? sap/ax/as400/custom)
... let us thus contribute to the cause of those who have to move the first steps with practical examples and not with phrases thrown there a lot of slogans.
not always a "medium/small" company has for strength lower needs than a large... only inferior variety and complexity.
Let's see what comes out.
The_Matrix
Guest
for the cad is simpler simply because you know the matter.. .
try to see the reactions of those who have always used a 2d and ask advice to 3d experts.
Tequila
Guest
even if you do not know the subject what I wanted to say is that (as in this forum) you can definitely find more information than a pdm.
of discussions of people who use (va) the 2d and asks (va) information on the passage to the 3d there are and seems to me that the answers have been given and also exhaustive, and where the question of the interested party was general asked him details in order to be able to provide him with adequate answers. see for example discussions of the type in which he had pro/e at home but still used autocad or of the other who asked for opinions on alibre or on which cad 3d buy.
I have known the 3d world for 7-8 years and are few compared to many of you who are more than 20 years that live with us. I am allowed to say that it is easier not because I know the matter but because you can find more information about these tools. Just go to youtube and write the name of some cad that you see out a mountain of demo, tutorials etc. both amateur and official.
as it wrote parametric_ozzy on "Council cad to learn quickly" ...it is not enough to open a cad to make a cube a ray a hole and a bevel and then to say that you can use it, but turning this phrase in another context all the available cads on the market are good to make the cube with rays and holes, but if I go to analyze what I want to get and what I need to analyze according to the product that I make the circle shrinks and many of this information I can safely reply here on the forum.
with the pdm (at the moment) it does not seem so
Parametric_Ozzy
Guest
When the_matrix says he has a minimum of his culture, I believe he intends to say in a general manner of the term, that a user operating in the field of development "would" for top managers at least know the general functioning of the design flows, as well as those of production at least closer and inherent to his work, this regardless of the small/medium/large enterprise.
I know that I go around for the companies, a total "ignorance" in this sense, even in the paintings and sometimes to pass the basic concepts you need to sweat 7 shirts, just because you should have a more general vision of together and centered on the product, this culture we say that you do it inside the company where you work and according to my point of view the main cause of this confusion is born from the fact that too often and willingly,
culture is also this, in the cad it is simpler in the plm instead you have to confront all those beautiful things mentioned above and aim is all more complicated.
Another thing that should be learned is that erp and plm play different roles but are complementary, to understand the benefits, however, one has to make a culture of what one does and what the other does and why they exist. . .
Unfortunately it is really difficult to explain on a forum all these things, but we can try with concrete cases, the_matrix has made a nice list of things that makes plm.
the market today requires more and more speed and if our processes are not streamlined we risk not being competitive anymore, these beautiful tools are needed.
greetings
I know that I go around for the companies, a total "ignorance" in this sense, even in the paintings and sometimes to pass the basic concepts you need to sweat 7 shirts, just because you should have a more general vision of together and centered on the product, this culture we say that you do it inside the company where you work and according to my point of view the main cause of this confusion is born from the fact that too often and willingly,
culture is also this, in the cad it is simpler in the plm instead you have to confront all those beautiful things mentioned above and aim is all more complicated.
Another thing that should be learned is that erp and plm play different roles but are complementary, to understand the benefits, however, one has to make a culture of what one does and what the other does and why they exist. . .
Unfortunately it is really difficult to explain on a forum all these things, but we can try with concrete cases, the_matrix has made a nice list of things that makes plm.
the market today requires more and more speed and if our processes are not streamlined we risk not being competitive anymore, these beautiful tools are needed.
greetings