team center express

[Achille Rosso]

I am thinking of installing a pdm/plm system in the company to manage the technical office documentation at first and then manage the production.

the company is a small company (30 people) and the technical office has n.5. stations sold-edge. the type of production is almost exclusively on orders (standard almost nothing)

I am analyzing team center express, pro-file and roule designer. I'm positive for the first, but I don't know anyone who installed it.

the same supplier, when I ask the installed stations, always dive.

I am therefore doubtful that it is not the right product (I would not miss this choice, a pdm that does not work would only damage: especially one as team center that makes the archive drawings inexpressible)

 

[The_Matrix]

I am thinking of installing a pdm/plm system in the company to manage the technical office documentation at first and then manage the production.

the company is a small company (30 people) and the technical office has n.5. stations sold-edge. the type of production is almost exclusively on orders (standard almost nothing)

I am analyzing team center express, pro-file and roule designer. I'm positive for the first, but I don't know anyone who installed it.

the same supplier, when I ask the installed stations, always dive.

I am therefore doubtful that it is not the right product (I would not miss this choice, a pdm that does not work would only damage: especially one as team center that makes the archive drawings inexpressible)

tcx is suitable for managing if... youth problems have been overcome and also ootb many of the things that tc does with customizations.
Perhaps the supplier (which is certainly not siemens directly, since tc express is the tc dedicated to the channel) does not know the market so well.
insist with the dealer, if you do not get anything please contact me. (in private)

 

[RuleDesigner]

> the same supplier, when I ask the installed stations, always dive. I therefore doubt that it is not the right productI think you're already giving the right answer in your own question.. .

if you want to visit clients ruledesigner of your size, commodity sector or area with solid edge or other cad has nothing to ask the commercial official ruledesigner who proposed it to you...

or if you want to investigate incognito go to the site Aesthetic Designer to the voice references calls to any of the companies mentioned...

 

[Team3d]

I am thinking of installing a pdm/plm system in the company to manage the technical office documentation at first and then manage the production.

the company is a small company (30 people) and the technical office has n.5. stations sold-edge. the type of production is almost exclusively on orders (standard almost nothing)

I am analyzing team center express, pro-file and roule designer. I'm positive for the first, but I don't know anyone who installed it.

the same supplier, when I ask the installed stations, always dive.

I am therefore doubtful that it is not the right product (I would not miss this choice, a pdm that does not work would only damage: especially one as team center that makes the archive drawings inexpressible)

talking about small companies, we personally made an installation at a customer who has 3 cad stations and 40 employees in the company and went smoothly in the first phase that was the one dedicated to the technical office.... the next phase will involve the other offices. (Business, Trade, Workshop)
we are also starting with a second installation with a technical office of 6 people and company from 50/60 here the work will be more challenging because we will also set up a classification project of the archive. This customer also works on a contract but there is always a lot to find and reuse in 30,000 historical designs. the cad integration of nx and solid edge are different between them having to manage two cads with slightly different philosophies but, as the matrix rightly said, the problems of youth have been overcome to great and the latest versions are a show.
for names and references contact me in private.

 

[gtemp]

we are a company with 30 employees, 5 stations cad if, as many teamcenter express licenses, we also work on a contract.
from 2 years to this part tcx more than a resource is a cost.

 

[Tequila]

we are a company with 30 employees, 5 stations cad if, as many teamcenter express licenses, we also work on a contract.
from 2 years to this part tcx more than a resource is a cost.

Since I'm interested in this topic, could you tell me why tcx has been a 2-year cost to this part? is it worsened as a program? or else... Thank you.

 

[The_Matrix]

a pdm is like a suv.
... if you buy it and use it to turn it by roma, like a 500, you only get bad results. . .
consumes a bang...
difficult to park. . .
go + plan that a c1...
You can easily put it back. . .
The only advantage is that when you get to the bar you make a figurone. . .
do the appropriate parallels and get the result.

 

[Tequila]

a pdm is like a suv.
... if you buy it and use it to turn it by roma, like a 500, you only get bad results. . .
consumes a bang...
difficult to park. . .
go + plan that a c1...
You can easily put it back. . .
The only advantage is that when you get to the bar you make a figurone. . .
do the appropriate parallels and get the result.

So I could assume that my colleague gtemp in some way can refer to the fact that given the crisis of these 2 years now for them it is only a cost because the software cannot exploit it as it must be

 

[RuleDesigner]

a pdm is like a suv.
... if you buy it and use it to turn it by roma, like a 500, you only get bad results. . .
consumes a bang...
difficult to park. . .
go + plan that a c1...
You can easily put it back. . .
The only advantage is that when you get to the bar you make a figurone. . .
do the appropriate parallels and get the result.

I do not agreepdm is an instrumental good that must benefit the company, not a voluptuary good of which to pavoneggiarsi.

If you chose a pdm that does not work or does not work properly or does not work from place to improvement of the business efficiency, or for some reason it is not satisfactory or adequate, then that pdm is to be thrown into the "cess"!!!!


but fortunately there are also pdm f u n z i o n a n o

 

[Tequila]

I do not agreepdm is an instrumental good that must benefit the company, not a voluptuary good of which to pavoneggiarsi.

If you chose a pdm that does not work or does not work properly or does not work from place to improvement of the business efficiency, or for some reason it is not satisfactory or adequate, then that pdm is to be thrown into the "cess"!!!!


but fortunately there are also pdm f u n z i o n a n o

then without so much warming up for nothing since from your nickname it is assumed that you have directly to deal with ruledesigner and that therefore you feel called into question, as I asked before gtemp of which you have not answered (obviously because you have yet to connect to the forum) you kindly want to express the technical reasons why you claim that a pdm does not work or is not appropriate so that people can regain correct information. I have assumed that the colleague has no advantages with the tcx because he does not have the opportunity to exploit it fully, we will feel his version when he feels it appropriate.

for the moment you want as said express technical opinions and not mine is more beautiful and bigger!!! !

the_matrix made a joke/paragon but it does not seem to have made names about it, indeed from his joke it is understood that it was reported to tcx.

Now to enter my case, we are about fifty people in the company including 1 technical office (I) and 1 commercial office. Currently we use a management, used by several people me, commercial, warehouses, production and the technical part I manage it by entering data from the cad to the management through a macro. From my point of view it is not an optimal solution, but since there are only I to manage these things and not a technical staff of 5-6 people could also be that a pdm is wasted or however that the spending at the moment is not advantageous.

 

[gtemp]

You guys don't warm up, sorry if I answer only now but I spent the day fighting just with tcx.
I'll tell you our story.
Let's start from the beginning.
I don't know why but at some point in mid-2008 we decide to invest on a pdm.
the choice falls on tcx, of the same family of itself, a single assistance, speak the same language.
is that we start in September 2008 with the implementation of the system.
siemens leans on a dealer.
after the customization of items, research and what else, we go into production at the beginning of 2009.
basic training to the administrator, basic training to users.
then from there the vacuum.
Do you have a problem?
report it, can't you resolve it remotely? the assistance intervenes, (in the meantime siemens has replaced the dealer then manage directly the project), cost to k€.
Go on, release version 4, pass? paid to k€.
version 4 has a kiss that multiplies the boms, reports, siemens says that the problem is mine, then when they realize that instead it is a kiss, they intervene at their expense, at least this time.
in the meantime with version 4 I am no longer administrator of the system because the interface and procedures have changed and still today I did not do a training as administrator, because it takes k€.
I keep going.
Do I have to generate a product from another existing?
Clean bom views, rejoining, check that some dataset drafts don't drag anything behind otherwise when you load the product's assemblies and go save a copy uploads you n item as many as are nested in the draft.

I'd invite you to spend a day in my office would have fun.

@thematrix

I hate suvs, so I would never understand it, this to tell you that 3 years ago I didn't have 20 k€ to throw, I would have kept them for me and maybe if I had a little more experience on these software I would have made another choice.

I admit that I use the instrument in a limited way, i.e. limited to what has been explained to me.
You want to ask for something?
Did you pay for maintenance? No? And then nothing.

At this point I think it's hard to go back.

Sure is that siemens should understand that tcx if it is for pmi should not have management/assistance costs from large company, and in fact we are few pmi in Italy that use tcx (are count on fingers of 2 hands? )

 

[cacciatorino]

actually put in the hands of a pdm that erases files from the file system and puts everything in a db is really a big risk, it means ending up joining the system seller forever. Is this the tcx case?

probably better a pdm that leaves the files visible through the simple cad and only care to keep track of the relationships.

 

[gtemp]

from my knowledge of the system, I confirm that there is a db, but the files are physically placed in a folder of the server managed by the db, and somehow I think they can take you out of this folder.
The problem is not comuqnue this, it is that in my opinion it is too complex and zimenz does not explain to you a c..or if you do not turn your wallet.
They're basically the bosses at my house, and that's what makes me sick.

 

[Tequila]

apart from all your justified motivations, when you have decided to use tcx, I assume that you have made yourself explain for thread and sign how it works, what it does, how you have to work to get certain results and besides placing all the questions of the case before signing the contract and putting hands to the wallet. I ask you this because I would also like to understand if the choice of tcx was made by the leaders/commercials that of these things usually do not understand anything or if after various meetings/demo etc. you of the technical department together with the commercials you have drawn the sums and said: yes this program does to our case.

on your previous post write:I don't know why but at some point in mid-2008 we decide to invest on a pdm. the choice falls on tcx, of the same family of itself, a single assistance, speak the same language.from my point of view a choice made in this way leaves a lot to want, in the sense that if even the 2 systems are of the same mother house and speak the same language, if for the type of work/product that I do for me it goes more than well and I find faster and more rapid also a simple excel sheet to manage the data, if the pdm does not give me better results I keep my system. the example I do is too trivial and I know, but it must be borne in mind that certain systems are of necessity on situations where there are so many people who put their hands on the same files and work simultaneously on same assemblies and therefore the management of the correct data is fundamental to avoid duplications, errors and what else can happen.
we had also done our examination of knowledge, we analyzed our product and what we develop but being only me physically in the office (until last year we were in 2... and now I returned alone) what development I manage only me. at the beginning it was hard but with some organization have been codified all the commercials that we use and inserted with the criteria of the case also drawing details, managing for each raw materials, working cycles, etc.
When we were in 2 we did the same thing but never on the same machine, I followed a project and the former colleague another, so there were no conflicts.

then speech aside is that of assistance. that is a cad or pdm I see that everyone is equal, that is to have product assistance in addition to the purchase of the same you have to pay the maintenance fee you need besides the software updates itself also to support/assistance in case of problems and this at least since I started using solid edge (2004-2005) is black on white. we for cad usually do service contracts of 2-3 years (it pulls on the price) and fortunately I have a reliable and available retailer.

with the management I use (it is dated but it works) I have enough free choice, but of course certain criteria must be followed. in the phase of purchase management in addition to the demo that they have made us and the specific one that we have asked us putting all the dots on "the ", simulating all the steps from the arrival of the customer order, passing through the design/insertion data up to the production, assembly and shipment has been widely discussed on the type of training of the staff and the type of assistance that you have, both on site and via phone or web in order not to have in case of problems of long production stopped.

If we had also rated tcx at the time these things would have been put black on white and signed by the dealer otherwise kindly we would have thanked them and indicated the door to go out.

 

[gtemp]

Tequila, excuse me for the unhappiest expression of I don't know why...
the choice to point to a pdm was made precisely because in the previous months we had an explosion of the data cad that we could not manage more with a excel sheet, considering that we were in 4 people to genare data cad, that everyone worked on all possible products.
I made the choice personally, as manager of the technical office as well as partner of the company.
myself before buying the pdm I got to see a demo, everything seemed so easy and practical.
then when you sign contracts the knife on the side of the handle they always have it because they know the system in depth, so somehow they always screw you.
With regard to insurance, the problem is that it is a system that requires continuous support, resulting in costs.

 

[Tequila]

Tequila, excuse me for the unhappiest expression of I don't know why...
the choice to point to a pdm was made precisely because in the previous months we had an explosion of the data cad that we could not manage more with a excel sheet, considering that we were in 4 people to genare data cad, that everyone worked on all possible products.
I made the choice personally, as manager of the technical office as well as partner of the company.
myself before buying the pdm I got to see a demo, everything seemed so easy and practical.
then when you sign contracts the knife on the side of the handle they always have it because they know the system in depth, so somehow they always screw you.
With regard to insurance, the problem is that it is a system that requires continuous support, resulting in costs.

You don't have to apologize... you have expressed your thoughts while remaining on the vague also because you are not obliged to make everything public.

However returning to the tcx speech but that can be easily expanded to other owners and third parties, I can understand that the problems are there, that some things are not good, small and big mistakes and sometimes so banal that they can put on their knees a company that lives with this system, but I personally do not share this phrase of your speech: When you sign contracts the knife on the side of the handle they always have it because they know in depth the system, so somehow they always screw you.This is because from my point of view contracts signed by both parties usually provide clauses and usually on things of a certain entity and value are well readable. for example we have put more than a year to implement the management, configure it, customize it, test it, etc.. still today there are small things to rectify at the level of data but surely we did not have the exaggerated rush to make it start in 4-5 months (says that you started in September 2008 and with the production first months 2009). I don't know the complexity or what you produce so I can't compare it to what I do, but if the dealer/assistance tcx really sucked in this sense, I make the big voice, I overtake it, I go directly to the mother house and I spu** are great if it is not competent, it can help me after all the money that has been paid out.

other thing is the choice to point to a pdm was made precisely because in the previous months we had an explosion of the data cad that we could not manage more with an excel sheet. Now I don't know if with the crisis you feel a lot about it, too, so that the pdm's spending is more than the work there is.

I had the opportunity to hear people I know during the presentation of st3 made in January of this year from my parts and also speaking of pdm since they presented version 5 if I'm not mistaken of tcx that there were satisfied people, others a little less because it is messed up, but that however like all pdms force you to walk a road that is that and it is certainly not easy or fast to do.

I also lived in the past situations in which the drawings passed from the technical department directly to the assembly because they built a particular to fit while loading the machine on the truck and I don't think I'm the only one here on the forum. Now with the management the thing is different, if there is a reason also the owner who invested money, time and people for something that at first could not physically touch as he would have liked, but that now begins to give his fruits.

I apologize to the poems of these last messages but I wanted to be as clear as possible for other users of the forum who approach or approach these systems.
bye:

 

[The_Matrix]

Tequila, excuse me for the unhappiest expression of I don't know why...
the choice to point to a pdm was made precisely because in the previous months we had an explosion of the data cad that we could not manage more with a excel sheet, considering that we were in 4 people to genare data cad, that everyone worked on all possible products.
I made the choice personally, as manager of the technical office as well as partner of the company.
myself before buying the pdm I got to see a demo, everything seemed so easy and practical.
then when you sign contracts the knife on the side of the handle they always have it because they know the system in depth, so somehow they always screw you.
With regard to insurance, the problem is that it is a system that requires continuous support, resulting in costs.

I don't know what products you make... I know.
But...
1) I do not think someone told you that a pdm installs with a next/next/next/finish.. .
2) I don't think someone told you that siemens services were free
3) I hope you didn't think a pdm is administered without training

That said... Don't forget, I recommend... :finger

besides the costs, you should also highlight the benefits you have had... (or you didn't have any)

two questions:
a) what expectations did you have in implementing a pdm?
b) what did tc disregard these expectations?

Hi.

 

[gtemp]

Did you find out what products we make? Well, they are not so complex, we go from products with 10 components to maximum 100.
1 - I'm sure I've been informed that the software does not install as you say, in fact they had anticipated study days and implementation.
2 - although the project was managed directly by siemens they told me that they would then demand a dealer, perhaps a little cheaper than 800 €/day.
3 - idem of 1

The problem is what came after, I compare with the car marches.
They taught me how to use the 1 and the second, and I thought that then I took the hand I could insert the other marches, and instead I was wrong, to insert the other marches I have to cum other €/day.

advantages?
the structure of the data is more tidy and we definitely manage better the changes and revisions, users do not fall that however process data cad for the production work better by extrapolating bom views, visualizing how a product is structured.

I think the comparison of the car is quite exhaustive.

 

[The_Matrix]

Did you find out what products we make? Well, they are not so complex, we go from products with 10 components to maximum 100.
1 - I'm sure I've been informed that the software does not install as you say, in fact they had anticipated study days and implementation.Good. and why haven't you been training administrator these days?2 - although the project was managed directly by siemens they told me that they would then demand a dealer, perhaps a little cheaper than 800 €/day.besides costing little you need to have competence... perhaps it is + important to have the latter that cost little. I don't think 800€/g is an exaggeration, to have competent people, on site, where you are...3 - idem of 1but how can you think of having a pdm in the house and not doing training?
or did you think your training was given? based on what?The problem is what came after, I compare with the car marches.
They taught me how to use the 1 and the second, and I thought that then I took the hand I could insert the other marches, and instead I was wrong, to insert the other marches I have to cum other €/day.You make a mistake here, I have...
It's not that "they taught me how to use 1 and 2"... it's that, according to me and how often it happens, "I wanted to do economy and learn how to go only in 1 and 2"... or is it wrong?
Unfortunately, computer systems must be known to administer and use them.
Unfortunately, every release change brings with you an effort (installation, db upgrade, test, seec, etc.) of which you have to be charged, or you or you do.
a pdm is not a cad... that install, ready, via use. is intrinsically more complex.advantages?
the structure of the data is more tidy and we definitely manage better the changes and revisions, users do not fall that however process data cad for the production work better by extrapolating bom views, visualizing how a product is structured.

I think the comparison of the car is quite exhaustive.
Well, I feel like good advantages. .
Of course, for investing them.
But from here to say that "it's only cost," iho, it passes.

answers in your text. Hi.

 

[RuleDesigner]

> here you make a mistake, iho... ...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
> a pdm is not a cad... that install, ready, via use. is intrinsically more complex.It is certainly true that the complexity of a pdm system in procedural terms is not equivalent to that of a cad or any functional application.
However, it is not true that the release change must necessarily be a drama.
anyone using facebook or linkedin or other social networks will have noticed that:
- the releases have changed several times in recent years
- but the passage was almost painless.
- you can always adapt quickly without having to do training on facebook or linkedin or other

Why is that?
because they are simple
because they are instinctive
because they are not unnecessarily arzygogular
because they are technologies Modernthen
Why should not the same happen with the pdm?? ?

already today there are those who invested in this direction. . .

but I don't think gtemp was "fit in the spirit" by the release changes, rather, (unless I misunderstood) it seems to me to understand gtemp was annoyed by a fragmented everyday life made of crash, time waiting for procedures to follow unnecessarily masochistic ... of poor design productivity ...