unsatisfied neo-engineer

[Marco9669]

ciao @marco9669understand your astio.
to blame others today is fashionable more than ever.
you use it every time you don't want to take responsibility for something in your life.
use it, you will certainly avoid all risks and prevent yourself from growing.
you have two important tools to use.
your curiosity and studies done.
the curiosity with the third media of door not far away.
you probably have a circle of friends / acquaintances who already have an economic independence and compare you with them.. Maybe they already earn your dreams 1600€ and maybe they will earn them forever.
strength and courage, the choices you made are right.

wolf cracks

 

[Stefano_GS]

to me in time they offered:
- 2012. I've been working for 15 months in a engineering company in the technical office. a well-known Italian aerospace company (it was at least) offered me an indefinite contract (with 6 month test) for work related to the management of the work. the proposal provided for 12 months in Italy as a formative period, then 24 months in harbin (Chinese Siberia), then 24 months in another foreign seat (typically in a difficult place...), then return to Italy. the 48 months outside were spent completely and was expected to travel and return to Italy every 6 months for a couple of weeks. in practice were about 3000€ net month for 48 months and without the possibility of being able to spend them. on the return the "promise" but not formalized was to have a career advance greater than who had been the same period in place.
I didn't go away from everything for so long and I declined.

- 2016. company of the same sector in which I worked, I continued my path to technical office and product development. proposed to follow first person the opening of their first plant in india, area that I followed already where I was working. the proposal was economically very
interesting but also in that case it was about to spend at least 18 months in India taking care of a little everything in the start-up phase. if I had been available to be in a stable plant would have been even better.

I don't say it's easy but there are some activities, cited by others before me in the posts, well renumbered. The attitude for certain tasks is not from all, I have not felt it in both cases, the first for distance the second especially for the responsibilities that I believe were too many for my ability.

continue to say that you no longer draw by hand and that learning a cad/cam is much more important than studying engineering. but they are two very different things. an engineer is not a designer (although he can draw and I think he should know) but much more. the principles underlying not only design but also production processes do not learn from self-taught (one out of a thousand can do so). If you read a little discussion especially in the design section you can understand that a theoretical basis on materials, chemistry, physics, mechanics is indispensable to understand why certain choices work.
banally also a carpenter (with all respect for the profession) dimensionals a simple structure to the eye. but an engineer will be able to verify that structure according to the loads to which it will be subject. a simple bolted connection is not trivial to be dimensioned with cause cognition

 

[Vittorio]

complaining about me will not bring anything. I will have to do more to myself..the evening back from work (type now).
I try only in my little one to give suggestions. If a boy enrolls in university because they like the research career, well come, I am the first who recommends the university... but today is no longer like when you do calculations and drawings by hand, you have to be practical because in the company they do not expect you to learn and do not invest in training; They want things ready.
First you start forming yourself better. I started now because precisely I was not satisfied with the university solution: seems to have learned this first notion as an engineer

You're wrong, it's all like once.
The instruments have changed, the compass/riga is called cad, the calculations may not be made anymore using logarithmic tables, but with excel or calculators.
what has always made the difference is the head of the person who uses the tools.
As regards training, I can assure you that most cad3d professionals have been slaughtered in the evening on their own, falling asleep while reading 4kg manuals.
now there are tutorials on youtube.
If you want to improve, the time you devote, no one pays you.

 

[Stan9411]

Good morning, I'm rotten, an engineer... in theory.
I tell you my story:
I graduated master's degree in mechanical engineering at 26 years because I started a year after college and lost a year in three years. It wasn't easy. economic problems, feeling a failure, fighting in the family, feeling offended by everything and by everyone, not feeling good at doing anything, but eventually I did it. I hate college, but I love mechanics. I hate the university system that only teaches what you don't need at work; I hate the fact that I came out that I couldn't do anything about anything. I hate so many college things, but the thing I hate most of all is that they lied to me all this time. it is not true that the university serves to find work; it is not true that the university serves to work; It's not for success. The university helps.... help? It helps. But how much? Here is this you never told me you professors, you proud engineers with capital with belly (pink) inside and chest outside... helps to find work more than one degree in letters but less than a simple paid course of 500euro. It seems mental that I did. I really thought the only way to look for work was to study six years? I didn't think that if I had turned 1 year every day looking for work I wouldn't have found a job like that or, indeed, probably a better job?
I tell you the truth, I don't want to lie to you because it's not right to do it, so I say: stop at the diploma, look for work and if you don't find it easily you do 1 cad course, if you don't just do a cam course and if you don't just take all the solidworks certifications or any software that comes to mind. I guarantee that it will be easier to become "certified solidworks expert" than to take even three years in engineering. and I assure you that to work is much more ulite (but much more) a certificate that graduates in mechanical engineering. you are curious and you want to understand why and for what? honor to you, you are like me. but also in that case the university is to be rejected. If you are curious, take information about the books used by students at the university (or even better pass the notes of the lessons from them), read on Saturday night and get back to work on Monday morning. because boys the truth is that after 5 years (if, maybe :roflmao of study are 1300 European net (after 6 months of internship ....so if you are a phenomenon the first salary of 1300 European nets you get to 25 years, but sincerely from the.... from us start in 70 and they graduate in 5 to session then I would say to 26 years... maybe even 27 in a year gone while instead your friend has started working at 20 years (it is because a year is taking us a year of pacchia) takes already at least 1500/1600, has a plan of life, soon will ask for the increase and shortly will buy house with the partner. What about you? nothing you are 26 years old with a hunger salary and you still have to live with your other 5 years to think about buying house with the partner (always if you are, because oh engineers do not go stealing and sincerely it is right so since we are ugly, dislike and poor in barrel).
engineer = success? No, work = success. !
I already work... because even here I see that a graduate has more desire than a college graduate. we graduates are exhausted, tired, lame... empty. because it is not easy to admit to ourselves that we have lost too much and earned nothing.
The only real thing that taught me my study trip is that I learned not to believe in promises. Mechanical engineering is a promise.

I hope to have been useful to a curious boy like I was and who loved mechanics as I loved her not to spoil as I did.
p.s no I am not a particular case, indeed I am lucky that I have been framed well (sometimes make even 1200.......). ccnl for a master engineer is a 5s go to see that net is

I think it's a very general controversy. you have not even specified that job you carry out and in what company, to believe you subpaid... it is not that the mechanical engineer regardless you graduate and earn 3000€ per month. if you make the designer, without experience, without any burden from the point of view of the management of resources, customers, materials, what salary do you expect? Perhaps if you have also in a small company, which clearly has to moderate investments.

make all the grass a bundle but I have practically your age and a completely different opinion: 28 years, graduate to 24, continuous work in the same company from 4, 6 months of internship, a year and a half to 1500€ per month now are on the 1700s. Sincerely considering that I don't manage staff and resources, I don't think I'm underpaid.
work in research and development and design nothing, I use cad only to open the models of colleagues. I make dynamic models (matlab), to calculate accelerations, forces, moments, then analysis fem, static but also modal. all I do would be impossible without the basics acquired at university: basic physics, but also differential mathematics, metallurgy, vibration mechanics, systems theory.. and don't tell me that you do a tease in the evening and open the book of rational mechanics for personal interest. . if you don’t bang our heads at the university before and at work then, with the cabbage that you can evaluate the resonance of a system and dimensional a real professional a proper tuned mass damper to be inserted in the base of your machine.

all this to say that maybe you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time. but from here to say that future generations must take your message as the bible, excuse me but they must at least before colliding even with my message.

 

[Marco9669]

I'll be the loser even if it doesn't look like the others pass it better... you're lucky from what I saw! Moreover, we are always the sloppy of the group to say that the engineers can while the graduates can not forget however that this country practically has been formed by experts!
I believe that everyone can learn, with certain sacrifices, but they can all. at university they all teach in general and often do not need... what I mean is that it should start as soon as possible to study the specific; Then obviously if a person does not want to learn, then he will not succeed as an engineer, or as a graduate. My speech is first you start studying the job best is!
for example I do not share the thought of stan9411 which represents the classic sloppy that automatically states that "I can", while others do not.
Besides if we put it like that, I also know cases of graduates who earn much more than you, like my manager.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

or I do not share the thought of stan9411 which represents the classic slump which automatically states that "I can", while others do not.

I don't think he said that at all.
he wrote that in order to achieve certain goals, independent of pay, they serve studies that can only be acquired through a side-by-side study, which is generally the university, but could be a private engineer, a company that makes training; very hardly you do it by self-taught and if you succeed you are a novello da Vinci.
above all the tone of @stan9411 It's not a slump, he explains the kind of work he does and how he got there.

 

[PIETRO2002]

I'll be the loser even if it doesn't look like the others pass it better... you're lucky from what I saw! Moreover, we are always the sloppy of the group to say that the engineers can while the graduates can not forget however that this country practically has been formed by experts!
I believe that everyone can learn, with certain sacrifices, but they can all. at university they all teach in general and often do not need... what I mean is that it should start as soon as possible to study the specific; Then obviously if a person does not want to learn, then he will not succeed as an engineer, or as a graduate. My speech is first you start studying the job best is!
for example I do not share the thought of stan9411 which represents the classic sloppy that automatically states that "I can", while others do not.
Besides if we put it like that, I also know cases of graduates who earn much more than you, like my manager.

I absolutely did not see any tone from slump, unfortunately I was just a graduate, I would not have managed to do what he is doing, serve some basics that only some studies can give. Following your speech then, if you have to prepare for work, because they should teach, letters, history, geography. It would be enough to teach, mechanics, technology and design and if we just want to be magnanimi even a little trigonometry that doesn't hurt? Maybe I think it's the case of adding a little philosophy and sociology that open the mind a little and remove the bows.. :

 

[Stan9411]

My speech was: I bring you an example of job (my! It's not that I can talk to you about others... and I've gotten sloppy... vabes) that maybe is more than niche, than the vast majority of pure designers and designers who populate this forum. I do so to make you understand that maybe some jobs, in a certain type of company, require training, in addition to the always indispensable experience, that is not reached by reading at home after dinner. .

it was a way to make you reevaluate the sense of “engineering” a little wider. many spend years fighting against the examinations of rational and applied mechanics, fluid dynamics, vibration mechanics, industrial automation, electrotechnical ... then, legitimately, enter the world of work with the role of designer/progettista cad and think "but all those bullshit to which I served?!? the practice is anything else.” ...my was simply a testimony that, in my case, those bullshit are the work practice! ! !

Besides if we put it like that, I also know cases of graduates who earn much more than you, like my manager

It is unclear that, of what I wrote, to you come to comment only the number on my pay envelope ... if I didn't write it my speech had a meaning and an end, do you realize?

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

Since you're so focused on paying, I'm taking back my experience that is the opposite of that of @stan9411.
out of middle school I choose a professional institution from which I come out as a lather/frestor and I immediately start working at 18 years (we are in 1994); work on machine tools for 7 years reaching the then discreet figure of about 2 million lire.
at 25 years I pass in technical office where I absolutely know nothing (only read drawings concerning mechanical processing); I leave with a salary of about 1200 € and piano I begin to learn.
after 20 years:
I know how to draw and quote almost anything (if I don't know something enough a couple of examples to understand), I know work and tolerances, I know more than well solidworks and autocad (for what little it means), I can develop independently proposing improvements.
I don't know how to make a fem, I don't know how to size mechanical organs, I don't know how to make kinematic calculations.
for this after 20 years I am still firm to a pay of 1400€.
I can hardly reach higher figures because I lack many basics that cannot be filled with lonely readings at the end of the day (of this forum I read almost everything); I am and will remain a designer, more than competent certain, and as such I will be paid.

 

[beppino]

I'll be the loser even if it doesn't look like the others pass it better... you're lucky from what I saw! Moreover, we are always the sloppy of the group to say that the engineers can while the graduates can not forget however that this country practically has been formed by experts!
I believe that everyone can learn, with certain sacrifices, but they can all. at university they all teach in general and often do not need... what I mean is that it should start as soon as possible to study the specific; Then obviously if a person does not want to learn, then he will not succeed as an engineer, or as a graduate. My speech is first you start studying the job best is!
for example I do not share the thought of stan9411 which represents the classic sloppy that automatically states that "I can", while others do not.
Besides if we put it like that, I also know cases of graduates who earn much more than you, like my manager.

Your reasoning seems a bit like this:
"The bridge I make it to my cousin, who is thirty years old who makes the builder and is good.
so much in university, engineer geologists and architects do not teach to make concrete. "
I would say to a young man:
You guys study, study more than you can, now that you can, I should have done it, and now I regret not doing it.

 

[DrBarde]

I would not invalidate the situation of engineer, besides the salary depends also on the firm. I bring my modest example, I am a mechanical expert who has not completed engineering studies, which I regret bitterly.
I am a designer who entered the drawing, I don't put the figures because I don't like to do it, but you can imagine how much I take an experienced designer, over 22 years and not 18. I had the experience, as you say, on the field of work. Today, after 8 years, I have a salary increase of about 45/50%. So far it seems to follow his reasoning. But now I give you the key to reading, the increase has happened with the change of property that has passed from hostess to managerial, and therefore wants to focus more on responsibility of the staff, besides wanting to level with the average salaries.
I conclude by saying that I feel the shortcomings of a more thorough study, so much so that I feel I have to take courses to update myself in the evening and what else. but they can never replace, or even, a university study. Also put in the evening to study, after making 9/10 hours in the office to think about solutions etc., trust, it is tiring when you exceed 30 years.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

for example I do not share the thought of stan9411 which represents the classic sloppy that automatically states that "I can", while others do not.

Slowly you're understanding what the problem is. Good.
You did engineering with the goal of being a cadist. and you did wrong. Your mistake.

you could also enroll in medicine to make the storekeeper, or to philosophy to make the fisherman. In the first case you would have had an injury because you would have dropped a package on your foot, in the second you would have risked sinking the boat for a misuse of the divers. Even in that case it would have been the university's fault that didn't prepare you for work?

 

[Fulvio Romano]

Besides if we put it like that, I also know cases of graduates who earn much more than you, like my manager.

ah, if you want to put it that way, briner earns even more having studied even less. rejected twice in high school, in 2015 it makes more or less your reasoning.

If that's your goal in life, you're still wrong.

 

[stevie]

I would not underestimate the problem of wage compression and sub-employment, which is not limited to engineering graduates.

remaining within a job or employee in Italy you will hardly go over 2000 net per month.

 

[DrBarde]

I would not underestimate the problem of wage compression and sub-employment, which is not limited to engineering graduates.

remaining within a job or employee in Italy you will hardly go over 2000 net per month.

If the goal is to make a lot of money, then you have to take over the risk of business by going to the game iva and signing the projects taking responsibility, or start making important transfers.
certain that in the first case the risks and commitments are very different from that of an employee, and in the second one makes the choice to get away from the family for at least months. but the figures are definitely more important.
I am of the opinion that today, having an employee's salary indefinitely that allows you a dignified life (and you do not need to take 5000€/month to be dignified, according to me), is already something to be happy about.
we also remember the effect "tax heart", which between what a person takes and what costs, the difference is not irresistible.
all this to say that you absolutely must not dwell only on the salary.

 

[cacciatorino]

If the goal is to make a lot of money, then you have to take over the risk of business by going to the game iva and signing the projects taking responsibility, or start making important transfers.
certain that in the first case the risks and commitments are very different from that of an employee, and in the second one makes the choice to get away from the family for at least months. but the figures are definitely more important.
I am of the opinion that today, having an employee's salary indefinitely that allows you a dignified life (and you do not need to take 5000€/month to be dignified, according to me), is already something to be happy about.
we also remember the effect "tax heart", which between what a person takes and what costs, the difference is not irresistible.
all this to say that you absolutely must not dwell only on the salary.

I am on the other side of the barricade (i.e., what pays wages) and in my opinion the contractual base pays are not adequate to the cost of life, in the sense that if one has family with the basic pay makes a very livelihood. On the other hand, to give superminimums, we must have quite high margins, as you say, the cost for the employer is about 2.5 times the net increase that would go to take the worker, so it is difficult to be generous.

 

[Marco9669]

Slowly you're understanding what the problem is. Good.
You did engineering with the goal of being a cadist. and you did wrong. Your mistake.

you could also enroll in medicine to make the storekeeper, or to philosophy to make the fisherman. In the first case you would have had an injury because you would have dropped a package on your foot, in the second you would have risked sinking the boat for a misuse of the divers. Even in that case it would have been the university's fault that didn't prepare you for work?

but you really struggle to understand that it is not that I decide the job that is offered to me. I have been sent offers, this was the best (I imagine the others). of all the offers that came to me most was cad, so it doesn't seem to me that the caddist is a job that few engineers find themselves doing. if instead you intend to become a designer, well I would certainly want it, but as just said I do not decide for sure; They decide my path as they decide my pay. not all companies need to form a designer, I could certainly wait for the perfect offer, but I can't spend any more time turning my thumbs (I now have to bring something home). what I try to say is that there will certainly be some engineers who will do a job as a real engineer (lucky), but most simply does a job that is enough (and perhaps advances) a diploma. Since the probability that the job you will go to is more than a graduate than an engineer is simply to stop in high school. We remember that this country has smaller "artisanal" enterprises than large "technical" companies, the engineer does not often serve.

 

[cacciatorino]

but you really struggle to understand that it is not that I decide the job that is offered to me. I have been sent offers, this was the best (I imagine the others). of all the offers that came to me most was cad, so it doesn't seem to me that the caddist is a job that few engineers find themselves doing. if instead you intend to become a designer, well I would certainly want it, but as just said I do not decide for sure; They decide my path as they decide my pay. not all companies need to form a designer, I could certainly wait for the perfect offer, but I can't spend any more time turning my thumbs (I now have to bring something home). what I try to say is that there will certainly be some engineers who will do a job as a real engineer (lucky), but most simply does a job that is enough (and perhaps advances) a diploma. Since the probability that the job you will go to is more than a graduate than an engineer is simply to stop in high school. We remember that this country has smaller "artisanal" enterprises than large "technical" companies, the engineer does not often serve.

I think you have no patience. We all begin by making designers, then who's a good designer pass (there's always hunger for designers), but a past as designers of big washers we all have.

 

[Marco9669]

If the goal is to make a lot of money, then you have to take over the risk of business by going to the game iva and signing the projects taking responsibility, or start making important transfers.
certain that in the first case the risks and commitments are very different from that of an employee, and in the second one makes the choice to get away from the family for at least months. but the figures are definitely more important.
I am of the opinion that today, having an employee's salary indefinitely that allows you a dignified life (and you do not need to take 5000€/month to be dignified, according to me), is already something to be happy about.
we also remember the effect "tax heart", which between what a person takes and what costs, the difference is not irresistible.
all this to say that you absolutely must not dwell only on the salary.

Actually, that's the real problem... basically the companies pay, but the net that remains you remove the taxes is too low. no matter how much you grow and more taxes increase; you get to a point where you don't even want to engage with the few extra money and seen the many sacrifices instead of doing.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

Actually, that's the real problem... basically the companies pay, but the net that remains you remove the taxes is too low. no matter how much you grow and more taxes increase; you get to a point where it doesn't even want to engage in the few extra money and seen the many sacrifices instead of doing.

With this attitude, excuse me if I tell you, but I don't see a great career ahead of you.