unsatisfied neo-engineer

[asblo]

Well, I wouldn't throw everything away. to something this discussion has served. someone who was going to enroll in mechanical engineering maybe think about it a little more...

Well, the discussion is fun, these controversies always take a lot, they show it the numerous feedback. But if we go into the merits of what he wanted to be the intent for me is even more useless, if not harmful. net of the passion and dedication that someone can have for engineering subjects, I believe that remains one of those faculties with which one can have the job assured will always be seen good eye also for other positions not strictly technical.

If a boy with good propensity to study, but totally uncertain about his future he has to choose a faculty, if he falls on engineering or other scientific it is hard for him to go badly. the same can not be said of those who try us with law, economics or medicine (because then you have to complete the whole course of studies to combine something), without talking about those humanities

 

[stevie]

I believe that this is unbeatable.

 

[cacciatorino]

I believe that this is unbeatable.
View attachment 64219

Did you really see that? seems like a fake

 

[Tristus]

I believe that this is unbeatable.

after 6 months will they look for a new slave? I wouldn't be surprised to find out.
a new graduate could also accept. from what arises what, meanwhile you have way to get into the world of work, make some experience, know people etc.
otherwise it is tragic.

 

[cacciatorino]

Did you really see that? seems like a fake

Unfortunately it is a true announcement, are unworthy offers.

https://www.adnkronos.com/annuncio-...-si-difende-e-uno-stage_o0oim1kds4ectkevjgey1

 

[IronMike87]

I'm not surprised at all. a former colleague of mine, from a new master's degree, with a degree in aerospace ing completed in land, as first work found an internship in peugeot at the exorbitant circus of 800€ net + meal vouchers. and he thought he was lucky. Honestly, it's a nice and good tease.

I am afraid that the good rotten misunderstands the origin of the problem. with all that can be said of bad on the Italian education system (I would speak for example of how unless to do a secondary school of second degree specific, you get graduated without having the slightest idea of how the Italian tax system works. himself said for any new graduate who did not do economics), he is not the core of the matter.
it is if anything the social-economic fabric that previews that in order to assume to certain functions you must necessarily have a title of study, except then claim to pay the subject as if it did not.


If our husband does not want to accept offers under a certain number, he does well, but he will inevitably have to collide with the reality of the market, which is what the law says.

that it is not Right. ... Well, I would say that unfortunately he discovered, maybe too late and too crudely for him, that is the life itself to be unfair.

said this, as usual making all the grass a beam makes me smile very bitter.
I have colleagues engineers who didn't even have to struggle to look for work because they had zeroed thesis. colleagues who have finished working for the nasa and who now teach in Dutch. colleagues who have remained in search and then have ended up entering brilliantly into the world of work.
as colleagues who after years spent as a chequer, had to go to the states to stop getting carried away by the nose. or others who remain for years and years in the same company have never increased their pay.

I could also say that after 12 years of work, I gain less than a friend of mine who at 18 years took and decided to make safety in the yards, entered into unpredictable salts, and now will gain 3 times my net if not more.
in the while, it was made 8 years in the center of Africa, took 2 times the malaria remitting (the second time) almost completely the sight from an eye, found a poisonous snake under the tablet of the wc (it was traced back from the prefabricated exhaust pipe), worked in Italy for perhaps 2 years in the last 18, and currently it is from 5 years to riyad where a foreign colleague whis bottle was surprised. He's happy, I've probably been crazy for a long time.

In the end, the number we find in pay envelope contributes to our serenity, but it is certainly a part and not all. what contributes per centually is purely individual and not objective.

 

[stevie]

Unfortunately it is a true announcement, are unworthy offers.

https://www.adnkronos.com/annuncio-...-si-difende-e-uno-stage_o0oim1kds4ectkevjgey1

Yeah.
was a real announcement (unfortunately). . .
after the clamor aroused, the owner had rushed to say that that was a position of internships (with international transfers, experience and foreign languages spoken without problems? )
no comment

then these are those who go on television to say "we have a lot of work but the Italians do not want to work. . . "

 

[TETRASTORE]

I believe that this is unbeatable.

I would like to point out that the company, in 2017, published that announcement forgetting to indicate that the figure sought was an intern and this created a huge media clamor because the interpretation that was conveyed was the generic one, in which a graduate was required with certain requirements in the face of a monthly pay of 600 euros, feeding and increasing exponentially the disinformation as often happens.

it is necessary to clarify that the company sought, as said little, an intern and in this regard it is good to clarify what it means; first of all it is necessary to specify that internships and internships are synonymous and are both courses of training and specialization aimed at inserting into the world of work for which I recommend reading This is to be able to frame them in the right perspective.

as we read from the above web document, are regulated by precise regulatory requirements inserted in the document "Guidelines on training and guidance training" (page 1011) updated on 25/05/2017 in which, referring in particular to the "retribution" cause of clamor and indignation, it is specified that the compensation is considered not as a salary, but as a minimum allowance of participation whose minimum value is 300 euros, value that the autonomous regions and provinces can increase at their discretion; in the specific case of Piedmont, where the company is the object of the media gogna, this value is 600 euros; in practice what the company had offered itself with the addition of good benefits canteen.

In conclusion, it has nothing to do with the normal wages offered to graduates or graduates for which a fixed or indefinite recruitment is proposed.

This is for information duty.

 

[Marco9669]

I would like to point out that the company, in 2017, published that announcement forgetting to indicate that the figure sought was an intern and this created a huge media clamor because the interpretation that was conveyed was the generic one, in which a graduate was required with certain requirements in the face of a monthly pay of 600 euros, feeding and increasing exponentially the disinformation as often happens.

it is necessary to clarify that the company sought, as said little, an intern and in this regard it is good to clarify what it means; first of all it is necessary to specify that internships and internships are synonymous and are both courses of training and specialization aimed at inserting into the world of work for which I recommend reading This is to be able to frame them in the right perspective.

as we read from the above web document, are regulated by precise regulatory requirements inserted in the document "Guidelines on training and guidance training" (page 1011) updated on 25/05/2017 in which, referring in particular to the "retribution" cause of clamor and indignation, it is specified that the compensation is considered not as a salary, but as a minimum allowance of participation whose minimum value is 300 euros, value that the autonomous regions and provinces can increase at their discretion; in the specific case of Piedmont, where the company is the object of the media gogna, this value is 600 euros; in practice what the company had offered itself with the addition of good benefits canteen.

In conclusion, it has nothing to do with the normal wages offered to graduates or graduates for which a fixed or indefinite recruitment is proposed.

This is for information duty.

but then you have to decide. or the university does not prepare for the world of work and therefore the internship serves to teach you work or university prepares a lot (as you admit) and in such case internships and training internships should be useless and therefore to be eliminated.

said this always hated internships and internships; for me it's just a way to get free work for 6 months. even because if there is no work or do not have an open position they send you home anyway and ends that you have lost only 6 months (which only is not!). the internship should last up to 1 month for specialized figures (i.e. where specific requirements are required: linque, specific diploma, university, courses, specific software etc.). I agree with internships only if hiring is aimed at an individual with the simple third media and who really can't do anything and who therefore really has a lot to learn: only in that case would be 6 months of training and not as it happens today where they are actually 1 week of introduction and 5 months and 3 weeks of work (with capital!).
I don't understand who came out of this stupid idea that working for free maybe you'll convince the employer to hire you...in reality they hire you when and where they need you and if you're the person you serve you take even immediately while if you don't need you are working for free at all!
sincerely 600 euros + good meal you can also put them where does not catch the sun since if maybe I live far I have to pay rent and discover the rent coast.
taking the internship would be the good time we stop wasting time for people who are already there.

 

[stevie]

I would like to point out that the company, in 2017, published that announcement forgetting to indicate that the figure sought was an intern and this created a huge media clamor because the interpretation that was conveyed was the generic one, in which a graduate was required with certain requirements in the face of a monthly pay of 600 euros, feeding and increasing exponentially the disinformation as often happens.

it is necessary to clarify that the company sought, as said little, an intern and in this regard it is good to clarify what it means; first of all it is necessary to specify that internships and internships are synonymous and are both courses of training and specialization aimed at inserting into the world of work for which I recommend reading This is to be able to frame them in the right perspective.

as we read from the above web document, are regulated by precise regulatory requirements inserted in the document "Guidelines on training and guidance training" (page 1011) updated on 25/05/2017 in which, referring in particular to the "retribution" cause of clamor and indignation, it is specified that the compensation is considered not as a salary, but as a minimum allowance of participation whose minimum value is 300 euros, value that the autonomous regions and provinces can increase at their discretion; in the specific case of Piedmont, where the company is the object of the media gogna, this value is 600 euros; in practice what the company had offered itself with the addition of good benefits canteen.

In conclusion, it has nothing to do with the normal wages offered to graduates or graduates for which a fixed or indefinite recruitment is proposed.

This is for information duty.

I didn't know you were the defender of the size group. . .

we say that the story "ah no but it's an internship..." came out after the figure made with the announcement... let's say that they had tried and it went wrong

however to offer 600 euros to a graduate with the maximum of the votes that has on the 25 years remains an unworthy offer also was an internship...600 euros (and also more) takes them a 16-year-old boy who after the medium enters worker apprentice

 

[cacciatorino]

I didn't know you were the defender of the size group. . .

we say that the story "ah no but it's an internship..." came out after the figure made with the announcement... let's say that they had tried and it went wrong

however to offer 600 euros to a graduate with the maximum of the votes that has on the 25 years remains an unworthy offer also was an internship...600 euros (and also more) takes them a 16-year-old boy who after the medium enters worker apprentice

offering an internship at a graduate is ridiculous. If you want to "try" you give him the contract three months and then the apprentice.

 

[stevie]

offering an internship at a graduate is ridiculous. If you want to "try" you give him the contract three months and then the apprentice.

in fact

 

[Stefano_GS]

in 2019-2021 we entered three engineers in the company. the path we are experiencing with satisfaction is:
internship curricular
extracurricular internship
permanent insertion in the company

 

[cacciatorino]

in 2019-2021 we entered three engineers in the company. the path we are experiencing with satisfaction is:
internship curricular
extracurricular internship
permanent insertion in the company

I would have been embarrassed to offer 7/800 euros a month for six months to an engineer (it seems that the pay of the maximum legal internships are those), however everyone is master at his home.

 

[DrBarde]

also in the company where I work they hired engineers for the research and development department, with worthy of note today.
but at the intake two/three years ago the so-called 600 euro internship for six months. I can't see anything so unhealthy.
then everyone is free to give an indeterminate from 60k to the first graduate without experience he finds, the risk of business is his not mine.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

the internship or internship serves to insert a person into the working environment; a graduate cannot have knowledge of how this environment works, which are dynamics, relationships with the various figures (from external ones such as suppliers to internal ones as superiors and/or subordinates), timings, managing pressures, in short everything that involves working to be productive.
In my opinion, the fact that this internship is generally used to do low-capacity without cause cognition is a demerit of the specific companies and not of the type of insertion.
the internship is, should be, even more protected for the worker because it implies obligations to the employer who may, should not, use the employee as a stopper; interinal agencies on this have made their strength by offering employers much more permissivism.

 

[stevie]

also in the company where I work they hired engineers for the research and development department, with worthy of note today.
but at the intake two/three years ago the so-called 600 euro internship for six months. I can't see anything so unhealthy.
then everyone is free to give an indeterminate from 60k to the first graduate without experience he finds, the risk of business is his not mine.

we say that between offering 600 euros per month and offering 3500 there is a wide alternative in the middle

 

[Marco9669]

I think it is obvious that the advantages from the point of view of the company are infinite. For them, they'd keep you at internships all their lives. the problem is that there is no advantage from our point of view.
You want a specific engineer? You want a specific diploma?
Then take it down. if you want to test it with short contracts initially, but cabbage you take it (as already happens in manual works where I have never seen anyone being hired as a worker in internships. if they want to test you they hire you with weekly contract, monthly etc but they hire you!. Why do not these logics of insertion and particular dynamics apply to workers while only for us are?).
for us is a disadvantage and just because if after 6 months of internship does not take the contract you can not sell from another part as an experienced person because the internship is not considered work, even if it is just work. so you risk switching between internships and internships and it is not so difficult to lose a year or more between internships without having anything in your pocket.
I was lucky because after the internship I was taken (apprentice at 1200 or I went back to doing internships from another part...I guess there was not much choice actually. ..
the conceptual problem is that we implement European laws that work for certain well-organized European states and where the laws are law (European laws write them the strongest countries: germany and company) while for us they only hurt and degenerate people. because you are not stimulant after 5/6 or spend years of study (without considering the superiors that frankly was not a joke) get in the face an internship of 6 cabbage months for 600 euros per month that enough to pay the rent if you have the job away from home and then if you do not accept the job you end up doing another internship.
Are you also men of science or have you started to follow the blah blah blah of certain humanities? Well, if you're men of science then you're interested in data, right?
here to you:
to the face of the working environment, the dynamics and all the other blah blah blah that exist only from us.

 

[cacciatorino]

the internship or internship serves to insert a person into the working environment; a graduate cannot have knowledge of how this environment works, which are dynamics, relationships with the various figures (from external ones such as suppliers to internal ones as superiors and/or subordinates), timings, managing pressures, in short everything that involves working to be productive.
In my opinion, the fact that this internship is generally used to do low-capacity without cause cognition is a demerit of the specific companies and not of the type of insertion.
the internship is, should be, even more protected for the worker because it implies obligations to the employer who may, should not, use the employee as a stopper; interinal agencies on this have made their strength by offering employers much more permissivism.

The shooting

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

the difference between internship and contract at term, interinal agency or not, and that in the first there is the obligation to define a formative path with objectives and tutor (the law of the type of contract and not a blablablabla from bar) while in the second there is no constraint. This means that in the first case if an engineer is banged to clean toilets or left to himself can "demnify" the employer (there is among other things a judgment of Cassation that says that if the intern performs a productive job the employer must pay it as an employee).
in the second case if a graduate is hired for 3 months as an engineer, with suitable pay, and is located to clean toilets can do nothing if not ask for explanations, piss, and possibly leave.