unsatisfied neo-engineer

[gtsolid]

I am only 8 and something

Well, in six months, a person must have understood the dynamics. 8 years old, you're a senior now. in fact stunts of the numbers that are not wrong.

In any case the salaries do not rise while raising the question ==> the sector is in resize (to the bottom). Besides, a lot of engineering work is done by the application engineers of the various brands, as well as software. ut are receptors of ideas that put them together on paper. It's not as wrong as I think. Clearly there are no longer the holy ones that existed 30 years ago traveling to 2m from the ground.

 

[cacciatorino]

This is because the companies today do not take an expert for the use. Although, from what I could see in (just for the love of the sky, they are only 8 and something) years of work, in a mechanical ut of a manufacturing company that makes custom products would suffice a couple of engineers who make engineers and a 7/8 mechanical experts who do the rest. then I speak of a technical office of 10/15 people because by doing planting the amount of work is not indifferent, perhaps in reality minors would be enough an engineer and 4/5 experts would not know.

That's not what they told me: it's the boys who ask to go to the shop because they earn more, between transfers and the like, and because maybe coming from a recent past of scooters they find themselves better with the iron than the computer.

 

[DrBarde]

Well, in six months, a person must have understood the dynamics. 8 years old, you're a senior now. in fact stunts of the numbers that are not wrong.

In any case the salaries do not rise while raising the question ==> the sector is in resize (to the bottom). Besides, a lot of engineering work is done by the application engineers of the various brands, as well as software. ut are receptors of ideas that put them together on paper. It's not as wrong as I think. Clearly there are no longer the holy ones that existed 30 years ago traveling to 2m from the ground.

I know senior, but I'm convinced that in life there will always be what "rub" the job that knows more than you. so staying a little humble you can learn many things. Let's say that of a software I trust to a certain point, the human eye of an engineer (voluably with the capital) has that extra touch.

That's not what they told me: it's the boys who ask to go to the shop because they earn more, between transfers and the like, and because maybe coming from a recent past of scooters they find themselves better with the iron than the computer.

This is true, but it is not so much the speech of iron and computer (I see from me, when I did at the time the high school was full of scooters the school yard, I passed just before the covid for some issues and I immediately noticed that they were half). the speech is of transferts that surely make, but what you know is the absence of will to take the "rogne". in the workshop you have less responsibility and in the end you take little less if you do not move or more doing them. At least, the reality I noticed in my area is this. However if I look at the research you do in my area, in ut you usually require graduation even for jobs that a expert could do. I don't know why, there's all an endless set of dynamics.

 

[cacciatorino]

However if I look at the research you do in my area, in ut you usually require graduation even for jobs that a expert could do. I don't know why, there's all an endless set of dynamics.

I believe it is for a prospect of future growth: the engineer has more potential to become a future chief committed, which for a peritum could be more arduous.

 

[stevie]

on the number speech closed to the universities second would be sacrosanct, the problem is that it would go against the dynamics now "businesses" of the universities...the universities are now to all the effects of the companies, with so much budgets to make square.
if you put the closed number limits the number of members and consequently the income of university fees, as they move forward.
medicine and engineering are two antipod realities, in Italy there are few doctors, even less specialized, many specialized then go abroad where there is still high demand and salaries are much higher.

 

[stevie]

I don't think it's a good idea: companies have problems finding designers for the technical office (we think that in a short time they will retire a large mass of "boomers"), if we further reduce the new levers will mean meeting a future of shepherding. we should have as objective the growth of the system in broad sense, not the corporate protection of a category.

they have problems because they want to pay little, this is the truth

 

[gtsolid]

I know senior, but I'm convinced that in life there will always be what "rub" the job that knows more than you.

in fact... senior does not mean gave

 

[Vittorio]

Most Of the times in officina e non in u.t.

It doesn't seem a bad thing to me, it's part of personal baggage always useful for the next steps.

 

[gtsolid]

It doesn't seem like a bad thing.

quoto, moreover conditions improve year after year, for what I see

 

[Marco9669]

I realize I've got a little wrong with the tones. I'm sorry about the problems I've been facing lately. Surely the university gave me a lot (constructions, machines, processing, vibrations, materials etc.), I did also many tests that I would rather not give, but overall I learned so much. This thing is the thing that even makes me take off, learn, be good and end up doing a job I could have done even without studying so thoroughly. the Italian university has no fault, the training there is, but it is a bit on the one hand the lack of investments in the long, on the other the mentality (always more push to cut in research and development) that does not allow to fly too high... and it is limited to doing normal jobs.
never said that work is not found: I said that it is paid too little compared to the investment done and often to pull the belt does not suit if not for though love for knowledge.
I also say that there has been a company policy in Italy for years that is trying to standardize all salaries. It is not so much the skill to raise the salary as the aunity in that company. it tends to reward the fannullone who has been working in the company for 10 years compared to the very good new guy who, however, has to do triple to grow. This is often due to the fact that multinationals are difficult to organize and therefore serve "management order" and a hierarchy based on aptitude is often created because it is easier to calculate than the results.
The only real advantage I admit existence is that I take a salary according to the office, others break their back. This is the only advantage. However, it remains to be considered that not only the engineers are in the office and not only the graduates arrive at us.

However if I look at the research you do in my area, in ut you usually require graduation even for jobs that a expert could do. I don't know why, there's all an endless set of dynamics.

Because engineers are better than graduates. time management, reliability, communication, training, leadership, stress management...we have much greater potential than a simple graduate. This also makes enough fun because everyone wants us not by chance, but still salaries are equal. we deserve more because we actually have a method that allows for higher growth to graduates.
the problem is not so much salary, but the salary related to others.. the regret is that I take the same salary as a commercial (if not less) that does a job that I could do too. While I take less or equal for a job that their graduates in economics/diplomates would not even understand. the meritocracy is no longer seen so much and this calls people definitely to give more. a person's head two accounts makes them: "I graduate in engineering (shoulding my back) for a salary or I graduate in sciences of some cabbage for an equal salary?!" this troubles people to invest themselves in the job because they do not see the results coming. . .
I think what the sign says is true. vittorio

I have spent so many hours on strike for working rights, but it is also true that in the fury of pulling the rope.. who benefited from it were above all lazzaroni and meritocracy has disappeared.

increasing the salaries of commercials etc. we have reduced the salaries of the technicians because the companies have had to cut on one side to be able to give to the other. today a work as a designer technician is seen identical to any other job and this is wrong because the design then falls here and with it also the competitive global level (we can not compete with cina, india and company at cost level, but only and only by quality; and quality means training!). in the company from me there are foreigners (no offense of course) who take as much as I and do not know to speak 1 word of Italian. this happens simply because the corporate logic today is to give the minimum of law at the beginning to everything and make steps according to the auntiality. es: at the beginning 1200, after 3 years 1500, after 10 2000 etc.... This is very negative because in the meantime I simply do not commit myself to giving more but I limit myself to doing my job waiting for years to pass.

You're right, but what's the solution?
ban internships? or allow them only during the training period?

absolutely prohibit internships for specific positions that require "requisites"! any requirement either. If you feel that for that place they serve requirements then you are already looking for a person who is already formed but only then the internship is only a logic of exploitation. If you're not going to invest and you just want to hire in internships..be take that with the third media and put it in the technical office.
Moreover he considers that already an engineer the internship has already done it before graduating in mastery, so in reality an experience in the company already did it...then the second stage is only another takeover.

However it is not a problem linked only to engineering...there are those who after paying 40k euros for a mba to the mouths do internships and is not hired, the internship is never guarantee of subsequent intake.

internship is almost never an intake tell me the data I showed before.
Tell me that the university forms well, and then we are hired in internships because "you are a graduate, you need training" you understand that it is a countersenso. rather do not waste time at the graduates. or hire them or at least allow them to look for work from another side and not to waste time being to do the internship from you hoping to have a contract (which maybe will not arrive).

you have a tone of the employee that no one would ever want, lamenty, pretentious and approximate.

Yes, I'm pretentious. I am pretentious because the job offers are also. if companies can be pretentious about the requirements, even I am right that it is pretentious about the treatment! Instead here they are only increasing the business planners on the requirements to have to make an internship. and the piagnistei are not a few eh: graduate, know how to speak English and preferably German and/or French, be willing to "short travel" (so they write), have an experience in that sector of 2/3 years, resistance to stress, preferable knowledge of software erp and who more has put it. while I can't ask to get paid more than a waiter.

but your working situation now what is it?

My working situation has simply stabilized. . I work like all normal people all here, I have a contract and I go ahead. project with cad carpenterie/machines.

I have anger inside because all my experience (opinable),matured in 50 years, is thrown into the toilet because I can not transmit it to anyone.

Write a book! I am reading a book dated 1950... as long as there is also a person in the world who will read your book your experience will never die. Throwing away experience matured in 50 years is an offense to mankind. collect photos, and write a book. in this way in his little one helped to leave his mark to mechanics.

ps, five years after graduation, the average salary of the eng is on 2k and 160h monthly. average, according to the statistics of my university's (Turin policy). So you also have to be honest with yourself, if you are under that figure, something is wrong and you can do better.

I don't know. I think they look like a little stats that I honestly believe less. However, it remains to be said that at 5 years from graduation you are 30 years old and however 2000 really few I have seen at 5 years without overtime.
Victory writes a book! it would be a huge sin not to do it, do it for posteriors!

 

[Marco9669]

The closed number would change nothing. the truth is that there are no engineers anymore and putting the closed number would make them impossible to find. the problem is not so much that they pay little because of engineers there are many, but they pay little only because they want to pay little to increase the profits. they have created a system according to which everyone pays little everyone in such a way that if I were indispensable for my company would not even make sense to pressure me to increase my salary by pointing out that I leave because even if I went away I would not find anyone who would pay me so much more and considering the distance would not happen anyway (not in case the companies are very smart to hire people mostly who live nearby just to leverage even on this!). for this often when you decide to leave a company, you go right away; abroad.
However, I have seen signs of improvement of the ccnl even if you are in favour of the category (would they be afraid that we are all leaving? ).

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

Because engineers are better than graduates. time management, reliability, communication, training, leadership, stress management...we have much greater potential than a simple graduate. This also makes enough fun because everyone wants us not by chance, but still salaries are equal. we deserve more because we actually have a method that allows for higher growth to graduates.

that written now

I tell you the truth, I don't want to lie to you because it's not right to do it, so I say: stop at the diploma, look for work and if you don't find it easily you do 1 cad course, if you don't just do a cam course and if you don't just take all the solidworks certifications or any software that comes to mind. I guarantee that it will be easier to become "certified solidworks expert" than to take even three years in engineering. and I assure you that to work is much more ulite (but much more) a certificate that graduates in mechanical engineering. you are curious and you want to understand why and for what? honor to you, you are like me. but also in that case the university is to be rejected. If you are curious, take information about the books used by students at the university (or even better pass the notes of the lessons from them), read on Saturday night and get back to work on Monday morning.

the one written in the first post. You managed to say otherwise.

in the company from me there are foreigners (no offense of course) who take as much as I and do not know to speak 1 word of Italian.

and after this sentence you talk about meritocracy?

This is often due to the fact that multinationals are difficult to organize and therefore serve "management order" and a hierarchy based on aptitude is often created because it is easier to calculate than the results.

the problem is not so much salary, but the salary related to others.. the regret is that I take the same salary as a commercial (if not less) that does a job that I could do too. While I take less or equal for a job that their graduates in economics/diplomates would not even understand.

these last two are pearls; fantasize a notebook and hang it over the desk that read it well all so then they will come to ask you advice on how to manage the company and how to negotiate with customers.

certain that for a thirty-year-old who has just started you have experience to sell in terms of work management

 

[cacciatorino]

It doesn't seem a bad thing to me, it's part of personal baggage always useful for the next steps.

is that if you start there then it is difficult to go into design, ahimè was referred to the topic of the discussion.

 

[wert]

The closed number would change nothing. the truth is that there are no engineers anymore and putting the closed number would make them impossible to find. the problem is not so much that they pay little because of engineers there are many, but they pay little only because they want to pay little to increase the profits.

But I think you don't have any clear ideas. If you say the engineer pays him as the expert is because there are too many engineers. if there were less, they would make the "noble" part of the design and being few, their pay would certainly be greater than that of the designer. We know very well that the closed number will never be there, but it cannot be said that it would not be useful to elevate the conditions of the engineers. .

 

[gtsolid]

dissatisfaction is an existential poison, I tell you by experience. What could you do to improve your situation? or have you seen pike for lanterns or are you right, in both cases you have to do something.

 

[Vittorio]

good day and good year to all.@marco9669 there are two simple words that put together torment us throughout our lives " e se ".If you're not happy with what you're living, you have to try to change something. You're young and I feel like you still have those important responsibilities that can condition your choices. as it says @gtsolid Something must be done. resignation is worse than doubt and remorse

 

[asblo]

expensive. @marco9669, when you feel a span above for form mind skills and see that the business situation around you is mediocre and unfair, there is only one way to solve this: Put yourself in your own! open your design studio where your expertise and intellectual superiority can make it fruitful for your profit. go and asphal all these mediocre aunts stopped in the 60s with your modern vision, hire qualified people and pay them well, as you say it would be done and put into practice everything you observed that is not in others, you will slit your asses! after the first year tells on the forum of your success so that we can meticulously take notes. Good luck!
p.s. inezie like the correct use of "he" and "here" you do well to leave them to those graduate cards, an engineer like you thinks beyond the grammar posts

 

[stevie]

expensive. @marco9669, when you feel a span above for form mind skills and see that the business situation around you is mediocre and unfair, there is only one way to solve this: Put yourself in your own! open your design studio where your expertise and intellectual superiority can make it fruitful for your profit. go and asphal all these mediocre aunts stopped in the 60s with your modern vision, hire qualified people and pay them well, as you say it would be done and put into practice everything you observed that is not in others, you will slit your asses! after the first year tells on the forum of your success so that we can meticulously take notes. Good luck!
p.s. inezie like the correct use of "he" and "here" you do well to leave them to those graduate cards, an engineer like you thinks beyond the grammar posts

what you have expressed (with obvious irony) would actually be the right thing to do.. .
remains only the small problem of the initial liquidity necessary to open an activity.

 

[gtsolid]

It's no longer time to open companies, survivors in sectors like that... I would recycle myself into another... For example, you're ing, you know how to plan? There's thirst for websites and web applications that are scary.
depends on what you're looking for: money, free time, stability? Jesus?

to corollary the degree is condition facilitating, not enough (necessarily necessary) for success in your work. a good starting point, but not a successful guarantee... a little like marriage.. .

 

[Marco9669]

p.s. inezie like the correct use of "he" and "here" you do well to leave them to those graduate cards, an engineer like you thinks beyond the grammar posts

I apologize if I ran away. I'm sure I didn't check back. I wrote jet. a bit of flexibility also on. for example here you see I forgot to put the g (or maybe the keyboard didn't work well) since I immediately had corrected it:

increasing commercial salaries etc. we have reduced the salaries of technicians