The_Matrix
Guest
alessandro,
open a special topic so you can discuss this interesting aspect of design.
open a special topic so you can discuss this interesting aspect of design.
Team3d
Guest
before becoming a retailer I was (and I am still with little time available) certified instructor siemens and I have seen of all colors. I saw people doing miracles in a month while others who didn't come out in 6 months. among our customers what you use best was what you invested most.... but I don't talk about courses.... because of those we did only a total of 5 days to the first two designers and 5 others when they all passed after the pilot project. the real difference made her the owner when she accepted my proposal of a consultancy ....or mentoring...or training on the job (call it as you want) where we went to reclaim the costs being an activity with a long duration (talk of a month in that case while for other times it happened to do 20 days in 2 months) and they left immediately with the right foot. practically if we buy a software we have a cost......if we invest also in training, we turn this cost into an investment with so much economic return. the difference on that customer between us and the cad that we replaced the competition made it the method of application.
Team3d
Guest
ip design, fortunately (or unfortunately for us veterans :frown
have been many years since you did the courses you.After that, the courses that were called pau and dau were born and in these 10 days we saw the solid modeling, assembly, a drafting dust
focusing on these 10 days. arguments could also be dealt with in much less... but a monologue of the instructor came out. with the old pau and dau (now they changed name but the concept is similar) have 3 purposes.
1) teach commands (it would take 3/4 intense days)
2) transmitting the philosophy of nx (for certain "talebans" of other cad would not suffice a life unfortunately:frown
3) do mooooolti exercises. the mouse must hold it in hand the user and the instructor must guide it if needed....otherwise the day after the course start trouble.
this is my experience
The_Matrix
Guest
absolutely... the method is what is missing...
The_Matrix
Guest
I didn't pay him. . .
However the knowledge "all" on nx is a little pretext. . .
You want me to give you a list of things to know and see how many you know? :tongue:
The_Matrix
Guest
I visited a few days ago a client who wanted to throw away nx/tc because... the usual because...
too difficult
too slow
too expensive
too complex as architecture
Low productivity
(let's say they make a list of features... I translated it "consulential"
Well... made interventions (free)... made visits... send you suggestions. . .
Nothing to do.
Well, a little smart kid came in. the system has been learned (even the last found... nx5/tc2005).
he understood how to work with assembly.. .
in an amen:
He's handled a hell of a product with a thousand components. . .
- has set the cinematics (without motion, but only with assy constraint and arrangement)
- the boards went out at lightning speed
- simulations also
to the dt then came a doubt: is it not that the "veci" take into account and just one with a little desire and open mind to get the results?
Utente NX
Guest
You make me impatient with these statements.
Team3d
Guest
I think I know who you're talking about... environmental factors play a lot in favor or against unfortunatelyI visited a few days ago a client who wanted to throw away nx/tc because... the usual because...
too difficult
too slow
too expensive
too complex as architecture
Low productivity
(let's say they make a list of features... I translated it "consulential"
Well... made interventions (free)... made visits... send you suggestions. . .
Nothing to do.
Well, a little smart kid came in. the system has been learned (even the last found... nx5/tc2005).
he understood how to work with assembly.. .
in an amen:
He's handled a hell of a product with a thousand components. . .
- has set the cinematics (without motion, but only with assy constraint and arrangement)
- the boards went out at lightning speed
- simulations also
to the dt then came a doubt: is it not that the "veci" take into account and just one with a little desire and open mind to get the results?
Team3d
Guest
I remember when one day you turned a sheet of excell with all the nx slide and we had to mark the things that we knew.......here I felt very ignorant that day...... then I realized that instead the road traveled was already a lot.....even if by my nature I always turned towards the future for which we planned a whole path of growth.... tomorrow I want to be better than today!!!! eheh
maxopus
Guest
It's just gossip and badge, and like all the good stuffers, if it sells it well and knows how to catch:biggrin:
is a technique taught in basic courses when you enter into a zozzer-house (no one excluded).
The_Matrix
Guest
It's gonna take some time, but I'm working on it. I would like to find a way (gratis) to increase customer knowledge on some aspects of the product that are unknown or not known or used badly.. .
Jock
Guest
Hello matrix. I'm here. I don't know him, I'm not an expert, but whatever it is, I know I can be more. if you want to experiment or even just chat about methods to spread the culture of the cad and knowledge of nx I offer myself as a guinea pig. What do you say?
However beyond the offer my opinion about the relationship between nx and those who use it is that first of all it is necessary to have the desire to know and to challenge their knowledge in beard to those who the job wanted it for yesterday, because so much who delivers today the job asked yesterday tomorrow will have to start again from scratch if it has to introduce changes or make impact assessments.
if this is missing there is no time limit required to learn and use the tool. I know people who have been using nx for 15 years is still not able to change the value of a feature parameter without starting the change of the feature (perhaps even the word parameter is unknown).
on the user's approach to any computer tool I could stretch out infinity, but I'm silent. theirs, in principle, is an attitude that makes me feel sick to just think it! Why? because it takes 8h to the day of activity that defines it routinaria is to be extremely generous. I look at them and think that between them and a robot the only difference is that robots are much more efficient.
Guys, it's late, and I'm tired. Good night, everyone. We rewrite as soon as I can.
re_solidworks
Guest
I also do not know nx but agree with maxopus that it is a problem related to all cad.
parametric philosophy from excellent advantages, but it must be well learned and it is not always easy to understand even banal concepts.
when you pass to the topdown the learning times go up a lot and if you want to teach the user to really have control it takes a long time.
I work mainly with swx and after the 6 days of course that you do I tell you that a user knows all the commands to menadito, but if it is not particularly awake does not make a bat!
to learn seriously and for advanced use a cad takes months, not days. When I go to my clients I see paradoxical situations and models that have no end and no tail and I find myself often reworking with the designer in turn some work because it became unmanageable. when then I see the classic assembly in bottom up that to make a change it takes 2 days to touch 200 pieces... I always say but why don't you clinch a context? if the parametric you use it so there is only obstacle!
Then going on a more complex cad definitely this factor increases.... I think the training is important, but I think it is even more important the engagement for the first months to carry out together with someone who knows a couple of projects.
parametric philosophy from excellent advantages, but it must be well learned and it is not always easy to understand even banal concepts.
when you pass to the topdown the learning times go up a lot and if you want to teach the user to really have control it takes a long time.
I work mainly with swx and after the 6 days of course that you do I tell you that a user knows all the commands to menadito, but if it is not particularly awake does not make a bat!
to learn seriously and for advanced use a cad takes months, not days. When I go to my clients I see paradoxical situations and models that have no end and no tail and I find myself often reworking with the designer in turn some work because it became unmanageable. when then I see the classic assembly in bottom up that to make a change it takes 2 days to touch 200 pieces... I always say but why don't you clinch a context? if the parametric you use it so there is only obstacle!
Then going on a more complex cad definitely this factor increases.... I think the training is important, but I think it is even more important the engagement for the first months to carry out together with someone who knows a couple of projects.
Matteo
Guest
premise: they are all powerful and potentially very useful features.
the problem is (I say working with a software that is proposed in a diametrically opposite way) that many users (maybe even wrong) do not want to invest time in the study of a cad (or systems connected to it) preferring to throw on a more direct geometry manipulation and "no thoughts".
especially often certain instruments (repeat: I do not discuss the importance) as pdm are proposed from above and the designer/designer digests them badly.
the problem is (I say working with a software that is proposed in a diametrically opposite way) that many users (maybe even wrong) do not want to invest time in the study of a cad (or systems connected to it) preferring to throw on a more direct geometry manipulation and "no thoughts".
especially often certain instruments (repeat: I do not discuss the importance) as pdm are proposed from above and the designer/designer digests them badly.
Jock
Guest
hi matteo, most likely these users think that the models do not serve anything and that the only document to rely on is the design, maybe even printed, and, probably as a consequence, that each model should exist in one example. This way of conceiving the cad and the tools in general I find it very myopic: designers should be happy to have at their disposal tools that deal with the "sporty" work in their hands, leaving them the opportunity to give free and wide scope to their imagination and imagination, if they have.
In any case it is always possible to identify at least one person within a group that is interested more than others in a way of working more efficiently to which to entrust the task of identifying possible methodological solutions.
Hi.
beppino
Guest
equally annoying of the "myopia" of the average user, is the sacking attitude of some.
here on the forum, are few users who have proven to know how to use nx well, to make some examples, matrix, ip, team3d, baskets, and few more...
before launching into criticisms both acidic and sterile, please demonstrate to know the product well.
Thank you.
ciciu
Guest
Why is he Arabic? !
simonjr85
Guest
For my view of things, I find that there is little importance on the part of companies in the training of qualified personnel for the use of cad.
As I have just said, after the classic basic courses, where I come from, no one gives importance to the training and continuous updating necessary to the user. .
Moreover, generally, those who use the cad are themselves reluctant to teach commands, methods and logic of construction for fear that someone may "steal the place".
many times then I feel like saying, "just do this," "just do that" by people who don't use and don't even know what a cad is, and then they're the same people who should organize courses.
Tequila
Guest
I agree in part... in my specific case is the opposite, i.e. every year they ask me (usually with the release of the new releases and related promotions upgrade courses) if I think it is necessary to do 1-2 days of course update. the "required ryngo" is not placed as "you must do them, serve them!", but in the sense of the word itself, which if I think it is necessary to do the update course, it is done.
I still think I'm part of a small percentage of lucky people in this area.
I have never been reluctant to teach the others my knowledge of the cad, both here on the forum, and to the former colleagues who now no longer work in my own company, also because it is not enough to pave 2 commands on the cross to "rub the place" of work to another.
that then exist such individuals around the world that while not teaching or educating a colleague much prefer that the "sc***i" wife unfortunately there are and for me they should be eliminated (obviously after having them...
)I agree, it's usually people who have to make the accounts square.
simonjr85
Guest
what I wanted to say in poor words is that I find and see a lot of superficiality especially by those who do not do this job (sometimes the superiors themselves) or those who do not have to deal directly with the various cads.
for the speech of the people who are reluctant to teach others, it was intended not to say which command to use, but precisely in teaching the correct procedure or the "best method" .. for example if I am to have to tell someone how to do a certain thing , I also explain some tricks or shortcuts, (how to use fewer features possible example) obviously in my limit of the knowledge no. tequila , my thought was not general, of course as in all the exceptions there are and maybe you are one of these but outside the forum there are hundreds of designers / directors, of course the forums are made specifically to exchange ideas and look for advice among the more or less experienced users who are