gabdia
Guest
Thank you very much.
MassiVonWeizen
Guest
If you think so that you're scrupulous?
exxon
Guest
I also regret to recommend you unlike your expectations, but mvw in #36 painted the situation as best you could not. go to the landing as you want to do is risk being counterproductive, not qualifying.
"going abroad" is not synonymous with qualification. it is if you go to a specific place to carry out an activity that you cannot do at home. Otherwise you are adventurers or emigrants, which is something different from being expats.
the world is full of foreigners who do laundromats abroad because at home they could not even do that. I don't think you want to add to the list, but without a "something" to propose that distinguishes you clearly, you risk having to cling to anything not to drown, and that is not qualified.
we from the dubai headquarters go to manila to recruit the labor force (via agencies on site) that then "import" offering a complete package. the same thing we do for the (minimum) technical part played locally, but so for us, as for more or less all in the area, they take the Pakistani engineers who if they fall very, but very well. an Italian without experience and new graduate with a national course... We wouldn't even consider it. Think about it.
Of course, if I speak current Arabic, then we could discuss it (to reiterate that you must have something to offer... ).
"going abroad" is not synonymous with qualification. it is if you go to a specific place to carry out an activity that you cannot do at home. Otherwise you are adventurers or emigrants, which is something different from being expats.
the world is full of foreigners who do laundromats abroad because at home they could not even do that. I don't think you want to add to the list, but without a "something" to propose that distinguishes you clearly, you risk having to cling to anything not to drown, and that is not qualified.
we from the dubai headquarters go to manila to recruit the labor force (via agencies on site) that then "import" offering a complete package. the same thing we do for the (minimum) technical part played locally, but so for us, as for more or less all in the area, they take the Pakistani engineers who if they fall very, but very well. an Italian without experience and new graduate with a national course... We wouldn't even consider it. Think about it.
Of course, if I speak current Arabic, then we could discuss it (to reiterate that you must have something to offer... ).
gabdia
Guest
in Italy it is almost impossible to make this experience because no one has ever really assumed me as acquired over the years. the desire to make the jump of quality starts from the fact that here I do not learn anything sincerely, at least in the environment I frequented and where I got to work. I think adventure on this path is not really a jump in the dark, otherwise I don't think it would make much sense to have received these indications from people who have already been there. I could agree if one decided to go abroad and say I never worked and did anything and I don't even have a basic education and no knowledge of the language, at that point I would certainly think so you would go looking for not a few swans. Looking around me of companies that abroad offer professional growth I have seen a lot of them, not dubai since it probably does not fall between my goals but already talking about sydney or even new zelanda I have received many positive tips regarding what I intend to do. initially nolent or willing with all respect for those who make the dishwashers, they did it in several, graduates and not, as they had almost no knowledge of the English or insufficient language to work with their title.
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gabdia
Guest
ps: as a start I would also be willing to do it laundromats, many friends who did it also with graduation have greatly improved knowledge of the English language.
exxon
Guest
ahi, ahi, ahi...
who does not do a qualifying job like laundromats (respect here has nothing to do with it...), is forced to do so because he cannot offer to the labour market anything better, not because he does not know the language. you will also have learned English very well, but working in another language is something different, believe me. and to think in another language you do not learn it by studying in your country.
the languages, then, are a "half" not an intrinsic value; I'm a tool to work with, but there's more to it. Of course, if you go to london and "iu spich inglisc" in Italian, you can only hope to work in a pub, but to clean on the ground we also end the native speakers, so...
I certainly do not intend to say that you do not have a preparation that can also be excellent: from how much you write it does not emerge obvious, but it could well be. but if you write "[in Italia] no one has ever really hired me for what has been acquired over the years," what makes you think that abroad would do it to closed eyes? This is pure illusion, be careful.
the fact (unfortunately concrete) that in Italy minds are not valued, while abroad receive open arms is true for those who are at the top of a pyramid already scaled at home. are those who do not receive funds for research, those kept down from the feet of the barons that do not unravel from the professors. They're hardly the ones in your situation.
then write "looking at me around companies that abroad offer professional growth I have seen many". What does that mean? is there any company that writes on the recruitment page "who comes to us does not learn anything and remains nailed to his place"? all companies write that they do it and it is true: they do it until it comes to them, that is until you have something to offer. If instead you hope to introduce yourself abroad saying "I have a lot of good will and desire to learn", you are going to have to love surprises.
who does not do a qualifying job like laundromats (respect here has nothing to do with it...), is forced to do so because he cannot offer to the labour market anything better, not because he does not know the language. you will also have learned English very well, but working in another language is something different, believe me. and to think in another language you do not learn it by studying in your country.
the languages, then, are a "half" not an intrinsic value; I'm a tool to work with, but there's more to it. Of course, if you go to london and "iu spich inglisc" in Italian, you can only hope to work in a pub, but to clean on the ground we also end the native speakers, so...
I certainly do not intend to say that you do not have a preparation that can also be excellent: from how much you write it does not emerge obvious, but it could well be. but if you write "[in Italia] no one has ever really hired me for what has been acquired over the years," what makes you think that abroad would do it to closed eyes? This is pure illusion, be careful.
the fact (unfortunately concrete) that in Italy minds are not valued, while abroad receive open arms is true for those who are at the top of a pyramid already scaled at home. are those who do not receive funds for research, those kept down from the feet of the barons that do not unravel from the professors. They're hardly the ones in your situation.
then write "looking at me around companies that abroad offer professional growth I have seen many". What does that mean? is there any company that writes on the recruitment page "who comes to us does not learn anything and remains nailed to his place"? all companies write that they do it and it is true: they do it until it comes to them, that is until you have something to offer. If instead you hope to introduce yourself abroad saying "I have a lot of good will and desire to learn", you are going to have to love surprises.
Lettore espatriato
Guest
a reason why many people leave Italy, I believe it is this:
"italia fanalino di tail per mobili sociale"
http://scuola24.ilsole24ore.com/art...sociale-183405.php?uuid=aelxpc7e&refresh_ce=1because even if you study engineering, but you are not the son of engineers or other professionals who introduce you to their network of relationships, difficult for you to scale it, that "piramide".
in this sense, to do for 2 months or 1 year laundromats or waiter abroad waiting for the right work that allows you, between 10 or 20 years, to arrive at goals that are precluded in Italy, I don't think "...to do it because it can not offer the job market anything better...".
Besides, living abroad, you can't forget how many companies have medium-sized managers, while in Italy, it seems that to become responsible for some company the pre-requisite is to be close to the age of retirement....
IronMike87
Guest
I honestly don't know, since the matter is a wire thread complicated.
I know for certain that this summer the visa expires (that if it was not erro it was of 2 years) and that if it is not sponsored by the employer (current or different that it is) must make weapons and luggage and return.
I don't know what he saw working with. Of course, I just know he didn't have the Cooking Satellite visa who generally take the Italians to go look for luck for 6 months (after extensible up to 12 months, if not erro)
gabdia
Guest
I'm not saying that because I feel the best in absolute but thinking that if one goes abroad I'm a professional in the profession I think it's quite ridiculous as what. What does that mean? If I thought how you would say that abroad only engineers, doctors, scientists, researchers who have accumulated a ten-year work baggage in Italy. instead on this I must completely deny it, there are graduates and not even without work experience but with a technical training like mine who decided to go to these places and build their life from scratch. I believe after a one-year training course it's practically impossible that I don't know how to make a technical design, the greater experience I will do in companies, but if you never hire me to work for what I would like to do I will never have this luggage behind me. the fact of evaluating abroad starts right from this, and I don't think that one who learned to use software should be thrown, at least in Australia told me so and I can guarantee that I know a lost guy in computer science and cnc programmer who also had the permanent visa and quieted me saying come quietly here, you are my clone you will have no problem. I would like to make technical drawings, regardless of the sector, textiles, mechanics, jewelry for me is no problem, even if I would be oriented towards the classic aviation or naval companies that have always fascinated me and were my dream. I just want to be employed for what I trained in. the course with which I am currently forming offers a general training, the purpose of the course is to transfer to the students knowledge, skills and behavioural skills that allow them to play the role of technician cad, regardless of the productive sector in which they will carry out their work. I do not say that in Italy they have never hired me, but I have simply done work outside my expectations simply because of lack of meritocracy or even because of lack of work. I have adapted myself to any proposal even at the cost of working by accumulating professional experience, but I feel ready to change orienting myself where my skills although minimal can be rewarded.
gabdia
Guest
the first line he mentioned is the sad reality with which I clash every day.
gabdia
Guest
I think if the company's fruit is good, it's all about him. My friend has a training similar to my but it is computer science despite everything after 4 years the employer has spent it permanent.
MassiVonWeizen
Guest
a year to do 400 hours? are just over 12 hours a week... as you do to store knowledge with these rhythms, between one lesson and the other you have forgotten half stuff.
However if you have already decided and are convinced to pro all this thread?
exxon
Guest
I think so differently: When I interview, I don't look at the candidate's family status, I try to figure out what's worth today and what could be worth in five or ten years. as I do, I am convinced to do all those who aim at the success of the company.
the above applies to the private sector. in the public...
If you could offer something better... He'd do a better job. I don't think anyone does laundromats for professional choice. I respect anyone who works and if someone does a job of arms you can't hide behind a desk, so it has my respect regardless. But this has nothing to do with judging certain works, however, as a filling dictated by the impossibility of accessing anything more qualified.
Here too we have clearly divergent views. true that in Italy the top positions (and lately not only those...) are covered by ultra-fifty-years, but the motivation is not some strange conspiracy of "brizzolati" towards young people. If the young people in our country stay at home, while the sixty-year-olds are encouraged to stay is simply because the first ones have less to offer seconds.
cacciatorino
Guest
I think when this happens, this is an Italian cultural limit: for the poor propensity to risk young people are not accountable and therefore have few chances to test themselves, wrong and consequently grow.
then in the companies in which I turn I see quietly trentenni that have to deal with plants from millions of euros, it is seen that not everywhere happens the same.
exxon
Guest
Therefore, in your opinion, responsibility is once again of the entrepreneurship class that in order to "not risk", prevents young people from expressing themselves in the best way. This is also a possible key to reading, undoubtedly convenient for those who prefer not to engage at all.
you would see instead as desirable a society of enlightened entrepreneurs who give the possibility to a host of newly hired employees to "wrong to grow", with their mistakes paid by the company, over the pay that obviously cannot be denied to not limit their social life, while they lead the path of growth.
I'm sorry, but I'm over. When you find one of these businessmen, let me know.
cacciatorino
Guest
from me it works that the young twenty-year-old receives the directives, then works two days and then reevaluates what has been done. the thing requires that the experienced designer dedicates two hours of his time to make a critical review of what has been elaborated by the twenty-year-old, but otherwise I do not see how a travase of knowledge can exist from the old to the young.
By doing so I think that the twenty-year-olds are growing very quickly, they will probably be able to design a machine at a young age.
I think the company is an actor of society and therefore has its honors and burdens, including the formation of young people.
exxon
Guest
is an interesting point of view that deserves deepening.
you could stigmatize as a socialist approach to company-individual interaction. I have been running for a few years a company in wool, and indeed we had a classroom (with lots of benches and board) and staff dedicated specifically to the education of the workforce. There was really no social purpose, but the purpose was to prepare the staff before putting it in line of assembly because of the scary turnover we had to face.
a strong social interaction of the company we have also had here, at the time of mom-fiat, when "the factory" took care of everything, from finding accommodation to the workers uprooted by the meridian and compressed in the hives of the Turin suburbs, to the holidays organized for the children of the workers in the colonies of the Romagna coast. They also had real courses for teachers, but also in this case, the end was far from social.
As regards the current situation, when as an entrepreneur I will also see the smallest "social honor", then I will be prepared to consider the equivalent charges. For now, it is enough to me those imposed by a state that only sees me as a case of which has a copy of the keys.
cacciatorino
Guest
example: with what money do you think you pay the roads on which you travel your goods or salary of who is always alert ready to turn off the fire that could destroy your equipment, or the hospital where you are treated when you are sick, or the schools where our children are educated?
IronMike87
Guest
people overestimated abroad because they think about how gross certain situations in Italy are. reality is that idiocy and stupidity are a common traits of the human being.
the same company, when the first contract expired, and in which it still works, told him more or less "you don't worry, tomorrow even if you're not regularly hired, come the same to work that then we fix everything "
for the series ... the whole world is country
cacciatorino
Guest
maybe it was a company founded by Italian emigrantsthe same company, when the first contract expired, and in which it still works, told him more or less "you don't worry, tomorrow even if you're not regularly hired, come the same to work that then we fix everything "
for the series ... the whole world is country
