working office consulting mechanical engineering

[oliofrusto]

hi, I have about 6 months of various experiences during the degree of mechanical engineering in which I worked as a designer in a company of realization of small food automation plants and an internship in the office as a collaboration for a retrofit of machine tool vertical lathe, more 5 years of self-parator.
Bachelor of Mechanical Engineering.

According to you, a contract is good in a consultancy office on mechanical engineering with a salary of 1400 gross (about 1050 net + 80 euro renzi) ? with fourteenth. with contract employed professional study 4th indefinite level.

what I care about most is to understand if there will be chances of salary growth? (work growth certainly).
I do not want to be indeterminate to remain so for the next 10 or 20 years apart from some 100 or 200 euros more after several years due to elderly shots.

 

[gerod]

you start from a level and then you grow up.
That'll be the basic pay, then if you're good and you'll probably be able to ask.
do not put it on the level of salary growth because you start with the wrong foot. set it on professional growth.

if one stays 10 years firm on a level probably did not grow or did not know how to grow!

 

[cacciatorino]

According to you, a contract is good in a consultancy office on mechanical engineering with a salary of 1400 gross (about 1050 net + 80 euro renzi) ? with fourteenth. with contract employed professional study 4th indefinite level.

It's the basic pay for a designer-diplomato, maybe ccnl as an engineer would give you something more ' (at least to the nose, without going to the right to look at the levels I'm not experienced).

as perspective I agree with @gerod: Hardly an external technical study will give you a lot of money, but it will be a good business card when you try to change jobs. If your future aspiration is related to a good salary, you'd better be heading towards the commercial sector more than the technical department, right away. The good salaries in U.t. I think only the technical and similar directors see them, while the standard designers think they can hardly see what.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

already having an indefinite contract of these times is significant on the consideration they have of your professional figure.
If you feel underpaid you can ask for clarification and make a proposal. or look for another job; no one is obliged to remain in the same place for 40 years. and it is not said that over time makes you with that for you are more important the working environment and the satisfactions that 100 euros more in the envelope

 

[exxon]

As I have already written elsewhere, and others have done above, pay is not the first thing to consider in these situations.

But...

Today I paid the caregiver who deals with my family.
If a graduate engineer takes 20% less than a caregiver, it means that there is something that does not work in our society.

 

[stevie]

As I have already written elsewhere, and others have done above, pay is not the first thing to consider in these situations.

But...

Today I paid the caregiver who deals with my family.
View attachment 52085If a graduate engineer takes 20% less than a caregiver, it means that there is something that does not work in our society.

That's all we engineer, we had to do the bad guys!
Other jokes, it is obviously a job market speech and demand-off.
in a country of old people like Italy the bad guys are very sought after, on the contrary that to make it of an engineer plantgrane and brontolone when what should be done can be easily carried out by a graduate with a minimum of insertion?
at least then that graduate kisses your feet because he was hired and brags with friends "you saw work though I didn't graduate!!!"

 

[oliofrusto]

For now I am resigned... until now I have also done 3 months as a mechanical maintainer on macchne tools and took 1350 as the caregiver, not considering the fact of being at risk life every day climbing on machines without security, driving trucks with 400 thousand km with the steering that dances, lying under heads or herds not locked in safety (I did not go below, I refused).

I didn't mind but I don't want to leave our pens... If it was a serious business, I would have stayed.

for this I changed my job even if they wanted to renew my contract, but it's not that I'm very happy... all those who work as designers in the first 4 or 5 years take maximum 1200 except one who takes 1300.
ok that I have to learn but also in the age I do not think you will never exceed 1600 euros as a designer. . . maybe something extra as a designer but after 10 years at least experience, then I don't know.

Then I'm a fan of what he does and I want to learn so we'll see a little.

However for shots, being fourth level how does it work? automatically after a certain period of time or not?

 

[TAURUS77]

As I have already written elsewhere, and others have done above, pay is not the first thing to consider in these situations.

But...

Today I paid the caregiver who deals with my family.
View attachment 52085If a graduate engineer takes 20% less than a caregiver, it means that there is something that does not work in our society.

I agree...

 

[TECNOMODEL]

That's all we engineer, we had to do the bad guys!
Other jokes, it is obviously a job market speech and demand-off.
in a country of old people like Italy the bad guys are very sought after, on the contrary that to make it of an engineer plantgrane and brontolone when what should be done can be easily carried out by a graduate with a minimum of insertion?
at least then that graduate kisses your feet because he was hired and brags with friends "you saw work though I didn't graduate!!!"

Just because the engineers aren't paid the right doesn't seem to be the case with the graduates.
I think the big difference is between people not only between the title of study.
I have personally seen engineers with three-year degree design absurd things and have a hostile attitude towards the worker with 30 years of experience that made him notice how the thing was not standing.
On the other hand, there are people, and I am an example of them, who make a career path aimed at growth and who come to occupy positions even higher than those engineers.
Obviously they will not have the theoretical skills and the basics that can have a degree, but I believe that they are positions and types of work that can be done egregiously without graduation.

 

[oliofrusto]

Exactly, I think like you... The university does not prepare you for work, indeed, sometimes it loses time you could spend to learn a job and pay you contributions... .

I'll stop it now or I'll depress ahahahahahaha

I am aware that I am not an income at least for the first year for the employer, and the commitment I will have to put will be elevated to learn and make as soon as possible.

frankly they also work with companies of macchne tools of which I am passionate enough and if it happens I return to do the transferist-mechanical in a more serious company but of the previous one if I will not find myself well.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

Exactly, I think like you... The university does not prepare you for work, indeed, sometimes it loses time you could spend to learn a job and pay you contributions... .

I'll stop it now or I'll depress ahahahahahaha

I am aware that I am not an income at least for the first year for the employer, and the commitment I will have to put will be elevated to learn and make as soon as possible.

frankly they also work with companies of macchne tools of which I am passionate enough and if it happens I return to do the transferist-mechanical in a more serious company but of the previous one if I will not find myself well.

I think that the university is not based on the world of work. I think that it is now an accumulated figure, but we do not diminish the skills that can be acquired.
I repeat, for me the difference does the person.

 

[stevie]

Far from me, the denigrating of graduates would miss us... but also it's fabulous that university doesn't prepare for the world of work... so let's say it's a little bullshit?
I studied mechanical engineering constructions of machines, construction science, dynamics, mechanical technology etc....so all things that have been useful to me, here I am.
You mean it would have been better not to have studied them?
that then with practice after years you can get more or less... yes and no.
I do not know but to me these speeches seem to me made specifically to "push everything in caciara" for the series... you have studied but those formulas there do not serve a fava, we continue to do as we have always done... and in fact with this beautiful mindset Italy continues to regress at world level, every year there are less companies, those few that remain do less and less research admitted that they do, the Italian companies bigger ones are now. . .
Let's say that the entrepreneur's mindset that worked 15 hours a day... has not worked for 20 years at least.
needs innovation, business and business organization.
for charity at university we do so much theory is true, then it is clear that the world of work requires simplification, but the basics are here.

but I repeat that my considerations are only about what I see every day, I do not want to polemize nor offend anyone.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

I think that the university is not based on the world of work. We do not diminish the skills that you can acquire.
I repeat, for me the difference does the person.

Far from me, the denigrating of graduates would miss us... but also it's fabulous that university doesn't prepare for the world of work... so let's say it's a little bullshit?
I studied mechanical engineering constructions of machines, construction science, dynamics, mechanical technology etc....so all things that have been useful to me, here I am.
You mean it would have been better not to have studied them?
that then with practice after years you can get more or less... yes and no.
I do not know but to me these speeches seem to me made specifically to "push everything in caciara" for the series... you have studied but those formulas there do not serve a fava, we continue to do as we have always done... and in fact with this beautiful mindset Italy continues to regress at world level, every year there are less companies, those few that remain do less and less research admitted that they do, the Italian companies bigger ones are now. . .
Let's say that the entrepreneur's mindset that worked 15 hours a day... has not worked for 20 years at least.
needs innovation, business and business organization.
for charity at university we do so much theory is true, then it is clear that the world of work requires simplification, but the basics are here.

but I repeat that my considerations are only about what I see every day, I do not want to polemize nor offend anyone.

I agree, you see my previous post.

 

[exxon]

the difference in preparation between an expert and an engineer fifty years ago is not the same as today's. Before the university, I attended a technical institute and in fifth we solved the differential equations. Today the students of my address write that sort of programs for arduino and go to do the alternation school-work that serves little more to show the students the position of the baths and the canteen in the company where they will then do the apprenticeship (i.e. they will work at reduced cost learning only what is needed to the company at the specific time). On the other hand, I lose a tide of time that in my time was spent in the school workshop with the blue suit, the file in hand and a teacher at the side.

fifty years ago, those who enrolled in engineering were driven by a crazy passion (otherwise they didn't let anyone slip into that mint). Today, most people enroll in that faculty do so because "after you find work". the first came out prepared because thirst for knowledge that could give them the attend those lessons. others aim at the minimum number of "credits" (which sadness) to get the piece of paper to be able to spend in the cv.

the result is that between a mechanical expert and an engineer (magari triennial) who first attended high school (magari classico)... I myself would take the peritum to flight. Of course, if you have to design from scratch the engine of the new mercedes f1, you need the engineers, but who today in Italy really designs? few, and those places are already occupied (from who has white hair). for other tasks, with all tutorials, application notes, apps, vendors support, maybe just someone who did even just the judiciary. Just be awake.

if then the engineer comes to cry because he does not find work, maybe he settles it, but that he does not claim to take the same salary of the expert with 15 years of experience, this is clearly!

p.s. the employee's salary before... more food and accommodation, of course!

 

[cacciatorino]

Far from me, the denigrating of graduates would miss us... but also it's fabulous that university doesn't prepare for the world of work... so let's say it's a little bullshit?

These are typically speeches that you hear from those who did not do it, so you speak not for direct exeperence but for hearsay.

of engineers who say it would be better to go to work immediately I didn't know... .

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

I do not have any degree of study beyond a professional qualification si machine tools in a school with low average claims. But they fall every time in the forum a university asks to control the design and can not even do half projection and other trivial questions (there are discussions that resente the absurd).
an engineer must first of all make calculations, but if he does not know how to read the layout of the customer or make a sketch to direct who develops the project is calculating fried air.
then what does a teacher need if you come to ask explanations in the forum where explanations are present strength of things limited to the context and not to the logic behind (although mechanicalmg does mortal jumps)? Take your fine vote and you don't understand a bat, go out with 110 and you don't understand a bat and make a hole with a thousandthletic tolerance to block an inspection door. . .

 

[IronMike87]

I do not have any degree of study beyond a professional qualification si machine tools in a school with low average claims. But they fall every time in the forum a university asks to control the design and can not even do half projection and other trivial questions (there are discussions that resente the absurd).
an engineer must first of all make calculations, but if he does not know how to read the layout of the customer or make a sketch to direct who develops the project is calculating fried air.
then what does a teacher need if you come to ask explanations in the forum where explanations are present strength of things limited to the context and not to the logic behind (although mechanicalmg does mortal jumps)? Take your fine vote and you don't understand a bat, go out with 110 and you don't understand a bat and make a hole with a thousandthletic tolerance to block an inspection door. . .

I believe that I have already discussed this, but I can testify that today the drawing exam is very little formative, and if a technical institute has not been practiced, then it is likely to make barbious figures.
I then add that of drawings of organs, machines and components, I remember to have seen very few circulars in the course of the course of studies (and I compare with the working environment, be clear).
With the hindsight of then, almost a decade away, I find it absurd that at the examination of mechanical technology, there was at least one question requiring the interpretation of a design and the choice of a type of processing.

I then add that the quality of the teachings, in many courses, is very poor. you have to deal with subjects who are more interested or self-glorification or their studies, than teaching. with the result that in the end many times you migrate to the course not assigned by the athenaeus to go to follow the equivalent lesson held by a better teacher (if the time allows it). Otherwise, or for courses with less enrolled, you have to arrange with books (also here there would be to discuss) or with magic professor's handouts (sometimes written by him, and lautly paid students)

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

This thread, open on another theme, shows the calculation limits that the motivational ones
I start from qusto point to highlight the mental approach and make commentshttps://www.cad3d.it/forum1/threads...ezionate-é-giá-fissa.54510/page-2#post-424852#24 said the prof, so even if I did the tutorials, made by people that the program knows him, who say how to simplify life I do as he says (va bhé can stand there)
#25 defense by interpreting my words, which have been Your teacher obviously doesn't know the program. , at will and first sign of not deepening of a useful theme or multibody versus together
#35 other worrying signal, namely that the movement of two synchronous pulleys should be graphically corrected (what is the usefulness of this thing)
#36 I point out that it made serious design errors and that, this I did not specify, compromise the operation at the expense that in the 3d you see turn the pulleys or not
from here on there not even a hint on which these serious problems can be (which I bring back to the bottom); This is the approach of an engineer too concerned to bring home a nice vote rather than understand their mistakes and how to correct them. I'm talking about practical mistakes and not calculations on which I'm not wired.
at the end he admits that he modeled badly (and is an euphemism)... and think he had fatt or tutorials.

serious errors are:
-no cignhia tensioning system that is tensioned only by screws that block the engine and that after a few hours or day it will begin to slip (image 1)
-the motor centering collar that penetrates inside the plate will prevent any assembly of the same (image 1)
- the guides of the support, which are made with drawings of about 2 meters welded to the walls, should be sold perfectly parallel hills among themselves and perpendicular to the structure. I didn't have a chance to check why the bearings were missing. Maybe the angle welding prevents the bearings from flowing, but it's just a hypothesis. (picture 2)
- bearings blocked in their seats only with interference (spere) because they are not seeger, incastri or other.
then there are small errors resulting frominexperience in the working reality

with this I don't want to make the boy a scapegoat, but he left me the bitter in my mouth

 

[cacciatorino]

We should avoid being too strict with a student, who by definition is learning, and perhaps in this unpreparedness it may also be that we have not understood the inputs of the prof and therefore report them badly here on the forum.

Then, and here surely I will be answered.for rhymes, at the university are taught things considered more important and complex. the engineering faculties are taught to calculate the drive torque necessary to accelerate a rotor from zero to 150 rpm in 12 seconds without it going into resonance or triggering vibrations, then how to stretch the belt that transmits that pair is considered a problem to solve to the designer. the expert has no idea how to calculate that pair, if not throwing into a data spreadsheet, calculation sheet however prepared by the in.

the thing that leaves puzzled is that Italian companies hire engineers to make him draw the taperings (and paying them as designers), and hire experts to make him make the climbers or the turning machines (paying them as climbers or turning machines). I never understood the reason for this waste of intellectual resources.

 

[MassiVonWeizen]

Hunter, your objection is correct. but if someone tells you that there are mistakes to ask which are the first thing to do and leave the 3d handling in the background.