Exatem
Guest
I have forgotten to point out that with regard to any prior rights, I have referred to what "it would" (at this point the conditional is obligatory) written in the minutes the Italian admiral.
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marcof
Guest
there are investigations in progress of the military and civil judiciary, I do not think we will have access to any card until the conclusion of the investigations and at the beginning of any processes.But how many straws do we still have to swallow? Why hasn't the official cards of the story yet been made public?
I add that when there are generals the tendency here from us is to throw smokers to everything spy, and in fact rightly you are talking about fregnacks and minchiate they told us.
If the ballistic periciousnesses carried out on the weapons even come to establish that the weapons used were those supplied to other two of the military embarked on the lexie it would seem that to shoot on the boat were our military. Or do I miss something?The fact remains that, if we actually killed the two fishermen, the jurisdiction is however Italian (net of other dances told us). because if the responsibility of the Italian military was found, at that point, it will have to be ascertained whether the action of fire was entirely conducted with the purpose of making warning shots in accidentally finished water on board, or if it has intentionally decided to focus on the parent
of course that, unlike the jurisdiction and all that follows and has already achieved, if the two naval riflemen had really killed the fishermen (with their rifles or those supplied to their colleagues little matter) with shots that had to be of warning and in water it is better that they have the firearms and to shoot with the sling. They were on a 100,000-ton dwarf, not on a canoe packed in the rapids. if you aim in water (not necessarily trying to hit a meter in front of the boat's bow) you hit the water and hit it sufficiently far from the boat to be noticed by the crew.
Do you know exactly how many shots were shot in everything? I thought I read 20. twenty shots fired in three gusts, the first 500 meters in the air, the other two in the water. Four bullets hit two of the crew. more than warning shots to me seem targeted at the center of the boat approaching.
of course these mine are only deductions on the basis of all the fregnacce mixed with truths we have read and heard so far.
Exatem
Guest
on the official gazette of 29 March was published the "regulation with the use of sworn guards on board the Italian flag merchant ships, that transit in international waters at risk of piracy" and will enter into force on 13 April. This is a text of 11 articles (which you find attached) in which are listed the procedures for the purchase, boarding, transport of weapons and ammunition and which regulates the relations between sworn guards and the commander of the ships on which the defense teams are boarded.
This does not mean that from the 14th they can be boarded security guards, they will take several months in order to qualify the staff and make them operational. Meanwhile, discussion of the risks of international crises in the case of new “incidents” led some politicians to reconsider the opportunity to continue boarding military.
as I wrote in a previous post, this hypothesis has raised the protests of confitarma that it has underlined for the voice of its president, as the riflemen of the san marco have carried out about 160 missions of protection to the Italian ship and to its crew, bringing to zero in 2012 the number of abbreviations and then evidenced that in the absence of a norm that allows the use of private defence personnel, this eventuality would mean to leave the crews without any defense of the pirates to face to face
now the norm is there but was immediately rejected by the operators of the field according to which in fact would prevent the use of private agencies for security with the risk that the merchant ships find themselves both without military and without private guards. According to a senate advisor, called for the development of the regulation, the officials of the interior ministry in collaboration with the transport colleagues, would have given birth to the usual bureaucratic monstrosity.
Articles 3 and those relating to arms are essentially contested (6 -7 -8).
We see article 3, it says: “In cases where the defense ministry has made known to the shipowner that the use of military units of protection is not foreseen, they can be carried out by sworn guards, dependent directly from the shipowners...” this means that in case the defence ministry communicates not to be able to provide its men, the service can be carried out by private guards. It is therefore a question of “find the faults” on call, not being able to count on a continuous working relationship making it impossible to plan investments, assumptions, trainings.
Articles concerning armaments refer to Article 52 on the legitimate defence considered generic and not guaranteed by the work of individuals who risk being seriously in trouble. an anomaly concerns the “excession of weapons in use” (art. 6 para. 2) forgetting that in Italy it is forbidden to hire war weapons and therefore the utility of use. the lease (nolege) or the convenient (prestitus) of the weapons for scenic use, or intended for sports or hunting use, are permitted by article 22 of Law No. 110 of 18 April 1975 but it concerns other types of weapons. other serious gap concerns boarding or disembarking of weapons in foreign countries since the transport of weapons is prohibited without special bilateral agreements. the criticisms come also from private companies that are concerned with security interested in getting the service especially regarding the management of weapons in foreign countries.
In the meantime, a new testimony would destroy the two riflemen. an enrica lexie official has released an interview in which he claims he saw a boat approaching with clear offensive attitude. one of the two rifles would then make bright signals and then show the rifle while the vessel continued to approach, at that point he would shoot 3 gusts in the water. the officer then ensures that while the boat paraded next to the lexia, the men on board were all standing. then continues with the story of communications with the Coast Guard who informed of the capture of two pirate boats and asked for recognition and then return to port. the next morning the police went on board and accused our soldiers of the killing of two fishermen. that day there were other conflicts on fire between merchant ships and pirates while a shooting involved the same coast guard of kochi.
View attachment dmi-29032013-nr-75.pdf
This does not mean that from the 14th they can be boarded security guards, they will take several months in order to qualify the staff and make them operational. Meanwhile, discussion of the risks of international crises in the case of new “incidents” led some politicians to reconsider the opportunity to continue boarding military.
as I wrote in a previous post, this hypothesis has raised the protests of confitarma that it has underlined for the voice of its president, as the riflemen of the san marco have carried out about 160 missions of protection to the Italian ship and to its crew, bringing to zero in 2012 the number of abbreviations and then evidenced that in the absence of a norm that allows the use of private defence personnel, this eventuality would mean to leave the crews without any defense of the pirates to face to face
now the norm is there but was immediately rejected by the operators of the field according to which in fact would prevent the use of private agencies for security with the risk that the merchant ships find themselves both without military and without private guards. According to a senate advisor, called for the development of the regulation, the officials of the interior ministry in collaboration with the transport colleagues, would have given birth to the usual bureaucratic monstrosity.
Articles 3 and those relating to arms are essentially contested (6 -7 -8).
We see article 3, it says: “In cases where the defense ministry has made known to the shipowner that the use of military units of protection is not foreseen, they can be carried out by sworn guards, dependent directly from the shipowners...” this means that in case the defence ministry communicates not to be able to provide its men, the service can be carried out by private guards. It is therefore a question of “find the faults” on call, not being able to count on a continuous working relationship making it impossible to plan investments, assumptions, trainings.
Articles concerning armaments refer to Article 52 on the legitimate defence considered generic and not guaranteed by the work of individuals who risk being seriously in trouble. an anomaly concerns the “excession of weapons in use” (art. 6 para. 2) forgetting that in Italy it is forbidden to hire war weapons and therefore the utility of use. the lease (nolege) or the convenient (prestitus) of the weapons for scenic use, or intended for sports or hunting use, are permitted by article 22 of Law No. 110 of 18 April 1975 but it concerns other types of weapons. other serious gap concerns boarding or disembarking of weapons in foreign countries since the transport of weapons is prohibited without special bilateral agreements. the criticisms come also from private companies that are concerned with security interested in getting the service especially regarding the management of weapons in foreign countries.
In the meantime, a new testimony would destroy the two riflemen. an enrica lexie official has released an interview in which he claims he saw a boat approaching with clear offensive attitude. one of the two rifles would then make bright signals and then show the rifle while the vessel continued to approach, at that point he would shoot 3 gusts in the water. the officer then ensures that while the boat paraded next to the lexia, the men on board were all standing. then continues with the story of communications with the Coast Guard who informed of the capture of two pirate boats and asked for recognition and then return to port. the next morning the police went on board and accused our soldiers of the killing of two fishermen. that day there were other conflicts on fire between merchant ships and pirates while a shooting involved the same coast guard of kochi.
View attachment dmi-29032013-nr-75.pdf
Last edited:
Oldwarper
Guest
http://www.anmimarmirolo.com/
the fact that the 7.62 bullets have become 5.56 in the Navy's statements in perfect accord with the Indians know so much about U.S.-style relationship... instead of protecting (it would be like to say [Bleep]) we now protect the india... and always with our lives...but in this context there are two news, indeed three on which we will have to further reflect:
the first, that the Italian navy with the rifles of the san marco boarded, has rejected also yesterday- despite the current diatriba- an arranging of six fast barks in the Indian Ocean, shooting in the air.
the second: the testimony made by the commander in second of the e.lexie for which were not the marò to kill the 2 fishermen, but the same Indians "we were on the bridge. when the boat approached 100 meters, latorre made optical signals, then showed the rifle. but they continued unwilling to approach, in a clear command. and then round and latoring shot. in water, though. when the boat moved away, with the binoculars we saw that they were armed but no one had died, and the two people, outside the cabin, were still standing." "after - adds the commander - there was another firefight, outside the port, with the local coastal guard of koci. I think the two dead fishermen were those. and to cover this mistake we have happened in the middle. also because the coast guard of mumbai, when he called me, told me explicitly to enter koci because they had captured two suspicious pirate boats and wanted our possible recognition. They brought us closer to deception."
the third: yesterday, in the fishing zone in which the incident occurred, at the borders of the kerala with the sri lanka, once again there were serious accidents and clashes between Indian trawlers who were fishing illegally and the coast guard srilankese, with the arrest of 34 fishermen, of which a twenty wounded more or less severely, and the seizure of 5 boats. the day before another 19 fishermen, and so on, always to fish in protected areas and anyway in the jurisdiction of the sri lanka! It is worth doing here an engraved and regret that the ballistic expertise carried out on the weapons that would have killed the 2 fishermen, in an amateur attempt and scaltro to frame the 2 of the san marco, had finally indicated a well-defined calibre of weapon that appeared in experimental endowment to the regiment, the beretta arx-160, but - for them unfortunately - not to the embarked seas. against this weapon (the 7.62 mmx 54 r) is supplied to the coast guard of the sri lanka: Some reflection on this is, therefore, due to the dangerous dispute and conflict between the different neighbouring fleets.
marcof
Guest
If the sworn guards or other non-military operators have to submit to the Italian law on legitimate defense are right... They're basically gonna have to wait for them to disappear before they can even take the safe.on the official gazette of 29 March was published the "regulation with the use of sworn guards on board the Italian flag merchant ships, that transit in international waters at risk of piracy" and will enter into force on 13 April.
(cut)
Articles concerning armaments refer to Article 52 on the legitimate defence considered generic and not guaranteed by the work of individuals who risk being seriously in trouble.
In short, the usual solutions roasted and set up with the collaboration of incompetents.
Civil detention is strictly prohibited. .an anomaly concerns the “excession of weapons in use” (art. 6 para. 2) forgetting that in Italy it is forbidden to hire war weapons and therefore the utility of use.
Wararms cannot be held and used by sworn guards but only by law enforcement and armed forces. They arrested more than one security guard who held home ammunition in caliber 9 parabellum. .
I quickly looked at the decree that you annexed and jumped to my eye this phrase:
" 3. the weapons referred to in paragraph 1, allowed for the performance of the protection services, are exclusively portable ones
individual, even at automatic operation, of caliber equal to or less than 308 wins. (7.62 x 51 mm)...
Rotafl!
can use automatic weapons while the rest of the text is explicitly referred to common weapons, what can you buy in armory and that are not automatic (i.e. war weapons)?
and then even specify that the caliber must be the 308 win. (civil) that is perfectly equivalent to 7.62 born that you can not buy. What do they do, they carry a 42/59 mg in 7.62 caliber and charge it with the 308 win. for civil use? Do they buy ammunition in armory and lend themselves to the army?
But who wrote that?
If the sworn guards will go to protect the merchant ships with these "engineering rows" and they will find themselves to have to shoot at some pirate who by disgrace should turn out to be an unfortunate/unwise fisherman, the casino that happened to latorre and turn around in comparison will seem a carnival joke. . .
Exatem
Guest
You caught exactly in the sign.If the sworn guards or other non-military operators have to submit to the Italian law on legitimate defense are right... They're basically gonna have to wait for them to disappear before they can even take the safe.
In short, the usual solutions roasted and set up with the collaboration of incompetents. . .
...if the sworn guards go to protect the merchant ships with these "engineering rows" and they will find themselves to have to shoot at some pirate who by disgrace should turn out to be an unfortunate/unwise fisherman, the casino that happened to latorre and turn around in comparison will seem a carnival joke. . .
Exatem
Guest
Some scrambled consultants?But who wrote that?
Er Presidente
Guest
http://www.anmimarmirolo.com/.. instead of protecting (it would want to say [Bleep]) uses him...
i francesi...
Oldwarper
Guest
Right... pardonnez moi... but there was such a traffic. . .i francesi...
Exatem
Guest
I have been asked for updates on the affair of the two riflemen of the san marco still held india after 15 months of shame.
According to the words of the new foreign minister, fate would be marked.
the Italian "calabraghismo" (to use a definition appeared on the press), did not pay and our country was defeated throughout the line. the two Italian soldiers will be tried in India against every logic of international law with a sentence already written. but in any case we can grasp the positive side even in a situation that sees us at the sedan in front of the world in fact, "the rules of engagement for the judgment that the Indians are preparing to give on the two riflemen as they were agreed the conditions following a sentence. the case "it is started correctly and we wait only for it to end". .
therefore renounce the international arbitration justified by the fact that they would lose another 2 years. According to an agreement in force from 1 April last, the judgments will be made to the respective condemned in their country of origin.
latoring and wandering will be condemned in India and will fight the penalty in Italy. Fortunately, Article 11 of the Treaty does not exclude the grace, amnesty or indulgence that Indian "magnanimism" could grant.
According to our Minister of the Interior, the 'road to follow is that of the rapid process: We will not fail to affirm our convictions on international law, but we must now find a way to bring them home." we do not understand how we will assert international law if judgment is accepted in India and not in Italy. now for latoring and wandering there will be at least two more months of investigation that preview the interrogation in video conference of the other 4 riflemen who were on the ship on the day of the incident.
Meanwhile, however, the general failed, retired commander of the Sassari brigade, took paper and pen and returned the honor of knight and that of Commendatore received at the end of the military career, as a sign of protest for the "mancancy of courage and pride demonstrated by the Italian government in over a year". not having any other significant symbols the general sent a recommendation to roma containing the honors in which he accuses the absurdity for which two soldiers on mission against terrorism will be judged as terrorists.
the bitterness of the general lacks has founded roots. in the birth of 2011 eleven Indian employees wrote a letter of thanks to the sassari whose patrol, consisting also of riflemen of the san marco, saved their lives as a result of a terrorist attack. according to them without the intervention of the Italians would all be killed. the letter continues by denouncing the total indifference of allies, of the year, of the born, of the European union but of this, we have already said.
According to the words of the new foreign minister, fate would be marked.
the Italian "calabraghismo" (to use a definition appeared on the press), did not pay and our country was defeated throughout the line. the two Italian soldiers will be tried in India against every logic of international law with a sentence already written. but in any case we can grasp the positive side even in a situation that sees us at the sedan in front of the world in fact, "the rules of engagement for the judgment that the Indians are preparing to give on the two riflemen as they were agreed the conditions following a sentence. the case "it is started correctly and we wait only for it to end". .
therefore renounce the international arbitration justified by the fact that they would lose another 2 years. According to an agreement in force from 1 April last, the judgments will be made to the respective condemned in their country of origin.
latoring and wandering will be condemned in India and will fight the penalty in Italy. Fortunately, Article 11 of the Treaty does not exclude the grace, amnesty or indulgence that Indian "magnanimism" could grant.
According to our Minister of the Interior, the 'road to follow is that of the rapid process: We will not fail to affirm our convictions on international law, but we must now find a way to bring them home." we do not understand how we will assert international law if judgment is accepted in India and not in Italy. now for latoring and wandering there will be at least two more months of investigation that preview the interrogation in video conference of the other 4 riflemen who were on the ship on the day of the incident.
Meanwhile, however, the general failed, retired commander of the Sassari brigade, took paper and pen and returned the honor of knight and that of Commendatore received at the end of the military career, as a sign of protest for the "mancancy of courage and pride demonstrated by the Italian government in over a year". not having any other significant symbols the general sent a recommendation to roma containing the honors in which he accuses the absurdity for which two soldiers on mission against terrorism will be judged as terrorists.
the bitterness of the general lacks has founded roots. in the birth of 2011 eleven Indian employees wrote a letter of thanks to the sassari whose patrol, consisting also of riflemen of the san marco, saved their lives as a result of a terrorist attack. according to them without the intervention of the Italians would all be killed. the letter continues by denouncing the total indifference of allies, of the year, of the born, of the European union but of this, we have already said.
Er Presidente
Guest
a story of absolute sadness.I have been asked for updates on the affair of the two riflemen of the san marco still held india after 15 months of shame.
According to the words of the new foreign minister, fate would be marked.
the Italian "calabraghismo" (to use a definition appeared on the press), did not pay and our country was defeated throughout the line. the two Italian soldiers will be tried in India against every logic of international law with a sentence already written. but in any case we can grasp the positive side even in a situation that sees us at the sedan in front of the world in fact, "the rules of engagement for the judgment that the Indians are preparing to give on the two riflemen as they were agreed the conditions following a sentence. the case "it is started correctly and we wait only for it to end". .
therefore renounce the international arbitration justified by the fact that they would lose another 2 years. According to an agreement in force from 1 April last, the judgments will be made to the respective condemned in their country of origin.
latoring and wandering will be condemned in India and will fight the penalty in Italy. Fortunately, Article 11 of the Treaty does not exclude the grace, amnesty or indulgence that Indian "magnanimism" could grant.
According to our Minister of the Interior, the 'road to follow is that of the rapid process: We will not fail to affirm our convictions on international law, but we must now find a way to bring them home." we do not understand how we will assert international law if judgment is accepted in India and not in Italy. now for latoring and wandering there will be at least two more months of investigation that preview the interrogation in video conference of the other 4 riflemen who were on the ship on the day of the incident.
Meanwhile, however, the general failed, retired commander of the Sassari brigade, took paper and pen and returned the honor of knight and that of Commendatore received at the end of the military career, as a sign of protest for the "mancancy of courage and pride demonstrated by the Italian government in over a year". not having any other significant symbols the general sent a recommendation to roma containing the honors in which he accuses the absurdity for which two soldiers on mission against terrorism will be judged as terrorists.
the bitterness of the general lacks has founded roots. in the birth of 2011 eleven Indian employees wrote a letter of thanks to the sassari whose patrol, consisting also of riflemen of the san marco, saved their lives as a result of a terrorist attack. according to them without the intervention of the Italians would all be killed. the letter continues by denouncing the total indifference of allies, of the year, of the born, of the European union but of this, we have already said.
Fulvio Romano
Guest
suppose the following scenario. India condemns the two riflemen to ten years of forced labor. as from agreements, the two riflemen fall in Italy to pay the penalty, but in Italy forced labor is not expected, they are put in jail. but being incensured they are put to the domiciles. after three years I'm out for good behavior.I have been asked for updates on the affair of the two riflemen of the san marco still held india after 15 months of shame.[cut]
the figure of Italian poop with the whole world remains, but in this way we would have made a "historical compromise" in which I make you win but I win. who has no muscles to show, like Italy, uses the brain and shows the cube.
I am ashamed of being Italian, if ever my shame can grow again, but how would you see this hypothetical scenario?
Exatem
Guest
It's gonna suck to me no matter what. . . .suppose the following scenario. India condemns the two riflemen to ten years of forced labor. as from agreements, the two riflemen fall in Italy to pay the penalty, but in Italy forced labor is not expected, they are put in jail. but being incensured they are put to the domiciles. after three years I'm out for good behavior.
the figure of Italian poop with the whole world remains, but in this way we would have made a "historical compromise" in which I make you win but I win. who has no muscles to show, like Italy, uses the brain and shows the cube.
I am ashamed of being Italian, if ever my shame can grow again, but how would you see this hypothetical scenario?
The scenario is what you described.
the india will condemn the two riflemen because after tampering the truth, having changed the cards at the table, having assumed an arrogant and indifferent attitude of international rules, can do nothing else.
Italy has made a figure of colossal shit and I will be ashamed of it for the rest of my life (although at 99.99% of Italians don't give a shit about my shame as it doesn't give a bunch of latorre and rams).
I don't know what happened on the ship. I don't know if the two escapers are innocent or guilty.
I know only that our nation (with the n minuscule) has been ridiculed, taken for the cuxo, derise and smeared in international indifference.
from that rest of the world that asks us sacrifices in Afghanistan, in Libyan, in Iran, etc. etc.
This is what remains of our history.
MBT
Guest
other than being out in three years or in three days, remains the fact that you were "condemned", therefore considered guilty, perhaps even unjustlysuppose the following scenario. India condemns the two riflemen to ten years of forced labor. as from agreements, the two riflemen fall in Italy to pay the penalty, but in Italy forced labor is not expected, they are put in jail. but being incensured they are put to the domiciles. after three years I'm out for good behavior.
for me, that I am not a sailor but a mountain, is a dishonour. I prefer to be in jail if I'm deemed guilty rather than free but with the "sporty" criminal record, maybe a crime I didn't commit.
If I'm innocent, I want to get out of it. If I'm guilty, it's right that you pay the consequences. the "scamuffi" of italic invoice are a little tight.. .
Oldwarper
Guest
Bad to say, but...
I hope that the Indians residing in Italy will be given the same treatment in case of suspected crime.
I know, you don't have to take the blames of ignorant and unspoilt rulers on those who don't have to defend themselves properly... as you don't have to make "pan per focaccia" or use the law of the cutter.
but wander and lator, in this case, what are they? ?
were they not supposedly taken for the dirty political/economic affairs of our dizziness?
If I were Indian, I wouldn't sleep quietly. I wouldn't sleep in two cheeks. And you know why? because 'italia is a civil country contrary to the india that prides itself on being such and instead not '. because' Italians are not beotes without memory, otherwise German and Austrian should feel whistling the bullets at every entrance in Italy. Instead we continue to welcome them as friends even if they are now depreding and conquering us economically.
and we will remain in Afghanistan, Libyan, Iranians and wherever they tell us that there is need, because despite everything, despite always treating us as traitors, cowards and turn, the word we keep it. Always.
We are good with anyone, we try to be accommodating, to always find compromise, to welcome everyone, including migrants and potential offenders to bottles and sandwiches instead of with 75mm cannon, we seek integration with those who to integrate does not have the least desire, we never deny a help to anyone, even if this for all gratitude spits us in the face.
Let's get rid of the face, take a smile, and come on.
Perhaps we pass for poor fools who let themselves stand in the head of everyone, who forgive anyone and does not have the pa* and react.
but no one in the world will ever say that an Italian denied help to those who needed it.
and this civilization, this honor (the same honor as all of our boys, lator and all of our boys) will never be able to remove it.
I hope that the Indians residing in Italy will be given the same treatment in case of suspected crime.
I know, you don't have to take the blames of ignorant and unspoilt rulers on those who don't have to defend themselves properly... as you don't have to make "pan per focaccia" or use the law of the cutter.
but wander and lator, in this case, what are they? ?
were they not supposedly taken for the dirty political/economic affairs of our dizziness?
If I were Indian, I wouldn't sleep quietly. I wouldn't sleep in two cheeks. And you know why? because 'italia is a civil country contrary to the india that prides itself on being such and instead not '. because' Italians are not beotes without memory, otherwise German and Austrian should feel whistling the bullets at every entrance in Italy. Instead we continue to welcome them as friends even if they are now depreding and conquering us economically.
and we will remain in Afghanistan, Libyan, Iranians and wherever they tell us that there is need, because despite everything, despite always treating us as traitors, cowards and turn, the word we keep it. Always.
We are good with anyone, we try to be accommodating, to always find compromise, to welcome everyone, including migrants and potential offenders to bottles and sandwiches instead of with 75mm cannon, we seek integration with those who to integrate does not have the least desire, we never deny a help to anyone, even if this for all gratitude spits us in the face.
Let's get rid of the face, take a smile, and come on.
Perhaps we pass for poor fools who let themselves stand in the head of everyone, who forgive anyone and does not have the pa* and react.
but no one in the world will ever say that an Italian denied help to those who needed it.
and this civilization, this honor (the same honor as all of our boys, lator and all of our boys) will never be able to remove it.
numero1
Guest
a moment in this discussion were given very strict judgments on certain personalities; and this because the 2 Marò appeared manifestly innocent.
Now, in my view, the discriminant is just this:
Are they innocent or guilty?
(b. guilty of murder, or without guilt according to our order, see also http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/omicidio_colposo)
Since the first possibility has largely been resized, it is strongly questioned, what reasoning I do as a fool what I am?
if they are innocent we have made the new figure of m...... .
If, instead, they are guilty, the fact of being able to bring them to Italy and serving the penalty here' only for 3 years is fat that cola.
will also remain in this second case the figure of m...... and we agree that hardly a process made in India will be impartial.
but in fact remains the basic question, the 100 million dollars, the one that would take the sphere of aladin glass, the one that............ Are they innocent or guilty?
In the second case, I allow myself to say (without polemics, it is only my opinion) that many people who have here expressed very strict judgments towards those authorities should apologize.
Hi.
Now, in my view, the discriminant is just this:
Are they innocent or guilty?
(b. guilty of murder, or without guilt according to our order, see also http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/omicidio_colposo)
Since the first possibility has largely been resized, it is strongly questioned, what reasoning I do as a fool what I am?
if they are innocent we have made the new figure of m...... .
If, instead, they are guilty, the fact of being able to bring them to Italy and serving the penalty here' only for 3 years is fat that cola.
will also remain in this second case the figure of m...... and we agree that hardly a process made in India will be impartial.
but in fact remains the basic question, the 100 million dollars, the one that would take the sphere of aladin glass, the one that............ Are they innocent or guilty?
In the second case, I allow myself to say (without polemics, it is only my opinion) that many people who have here expressed very strict judgments towards those authorities should apologize.
Hi.
tecnico_plast
Guest
Perhaps, thirty years ago all this would not have happened, politically we had people with *alles.
for me, so we're not saving the face or honor.
for me, so we're not saving the face or honor.
Fulvio Romano
Guest
I think this has no influence. We are not discussing (at least I) whether the fact has happened or not, if the two are guilty or not, but if the india has the authority to impose the fact that to decide it is an Indian court.Are they innocent or guilty?
if they are innocent or guilty it establishes an Italian court (military) since the tizi in question were sent from Italy, in Italian territory (ship) and of Italian nationality.
someone more on had brought the example of cermis. perfectly fit example. the pilot was wrongly rotten and (probably) was condemned. in America, from an American court.
numero1
Guest
Well the example of cermis is perfect, yes if everything had happened in use the pilot would probably (not sure) be convicted, remember in fact that in your country the U.S. military are in fact very powerful.I think this has no influence. We are not discussing (at least I) whether the fact has happened or not, if the two are guilty or not, but if the india has the authority to impose the fact that to decide it is an Indian court.
if they are innocent or guilty it establishes an Italian court (military) since the tizi in question were sent from Italy, in Italian territory (ship) and of Italian nationality.
someone more on had brought the example of cermis. perfectly fit example. the pilot was wrongly rotten and (probably) was condemned. in America, from an American court.
but instead it happened in Italy, read how it ended:http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/strage_del_cermisI would say I've been very cheap, don't you think?
As far as I am concerned, I am arguing even if the india has the authority to impose on us the fact that deciding it is an Indian court.
but also of the fact whether they are either one or another.
you will converge, that in the face of a manifest innocence ns. diplomatic position as a country, as politicians, as......... is very + defendable that in the face of uncertainty.
But now this aspect of the story is overcome that you want it or not.
The matter should not have been put like this, but given how everything went, let's try to bring home the two soldiers of ref or of raffa.
Hi.
Oldwarper
Guest
continue mint figures.. .
http://notizie.tiscali.it/articoli/politica/13/07/14/shalabaieva-giallo.htmla drifting government. out of every possibility of control.
http://notizie.tiscali.it/articoli/politica/13/07/14/shalabaieva-giallo.htmla drifting government. out of every possibility of control.