laser marking and protection

[TECNOMODEL]

Well at the time of purchase I would have asked myself the question.. .

"How come all the machines have lacking with protection and this here is not? "

But if you think the car's all right, so that I'll tell you... use it. . .

the fact that all machines have the famine is not really true.
who realized the engravings has a machine that does not present famines.
We then consider that for our company it is the first purchase of a similar machine, therefore total inexperience.
In addition the seller has been "passed" by a supplier of tools, which he may have made to choose without deepening more than much.

now I come to your closing phrase:
Where would I say the car is all right?
If I thought what I would open the thread to do?
Then yes, you say it's dangerous, but what do you have about it?
If you allow, before taking what is written on a forum as gold I do some verification.
In the meantime, I'm waiting for the mail in which the regulations should be indicated to which the machine must be subjected, I'll try to get it and I'll evaluate it.
If, as I think, my doubts will remain, I will ask the consultant for clarification.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

interessante questo thread.@tecnomodel Do you keep us updated?

 

[TECNOMODEL]

interessante questo thread.@tecnomodel Do you keep us updated?

certainly

 

[stevie]

the fact that all machines have the famine is not really true.
who realized the engravings has a machine that does not present famines.
We then consider that for our company it is the first purchase of a similar machine, therefore total inexperience.
In addition the seller has been "passed" by a supplier of tools, which he may have made to choose without deepening more than much.

now I come to your closing phrase:
Where would I say the car is all right?
If I thought what I would open the thread to do?
Then yes, you say it's dangerous, but what do you have about it?
If you allow, before taking what is written on a forum as gold I do some verification.
In the meantime, I'm waiting for the mail in which the regulations should be indicated to which the machine must be subjected, I'll try to get it and I'll evaluate it.
If, as I think, my doubts will remain, I will ask the consultant for clarification.

the fact that "what made us engravings had an unfair machine" is not an indication that it is usually having machines not cared for with a class 4 laser, and indeed I am practically sure of the contrary.
according to your reasoning, being filled with people who go around with the tires lise or without the belts, you could assume that it is regular circular so instead it is not.

From my point of view, the owner was wrong to "trust the supplier." ..for personal experience I learned that in case of purchases of machinery of which you are not very well to feel as much opinions as possible.

I'm not a security expert. . .
However, by running those two neurons that have left me and knowing a little bit the work you have to do, together with the fact that the same manufacturer of the laser generator reports precise indications, I feel that beyond the legality of the situation, having an open machine as your involves a series of considerations.

1 - you will always have to wear protective glasses, ensuring that they are calibrated for the wavelength of that laser.. .

2 - the machine in processing will produce vapours/fumes deriving from the molten material (motive for which usually the machines, at least the ones I have seen, are fawned and have aspirators with filters)

3. In that room, no one should come in while the machine works... you have glasses, but one who by mistake did not enter that room while the machine works would probably come out with sight damage

 

[TECNOMODEL]

the fact that "what made us engravings had an unfair machine" is not an indication that it is usually having machines not cared for with a class 4 laser, and indeed I am practically sure of the contrary.according to your reasoning, being filled with people who go around with the tires lise or without the belts, you could assume that it is regular circular so instead it is not.From my point of view, the owner was wrong to "trust the supplier." ..for personal experience I learned that in case of purchases of machinery of which you are not very well to feel as much opinions as possible.

I'm not a security expert. . .
However, by running those two neurons that have left me and knowing a little bit the work you have to do, together with the fact that the same manufacturer of the laser generator reports precise indications, I feel that beyond the legality of the situation, having an open machine as your involves a series of considerations.

1 - you will always have to wear protective glasses, ensuring that they are calibrated for the wavelength of that laser.. .

2 - the machine in processing will produce vapours/fumes deriving from the molten material (motive for which usually the machines, at least the ones I have seen, are fawned and have aspirators with filters)

3. In that room, no one should come in while the machine works... you have glasses, but one who by mistake did not enter that room while the machine works would probably come out with sight damage

I don't understand how you're gonna put a reason like that in my mouth, I'm telling you I'm trying to figure out how things are. the fact that another company has purchased a car that has been sold without carenature is not index that it is in norm but it is not even index of the opposite, so....
However, I close here because my intent is absolutely not to make controversy.
for the points you have listed you see well that you prospect a very different situation.
If we set up a system that respects the requirements you have indicated, in your opinion, we would be safe.
Is that what I'm trying to figure out, the car has to be cured or can you work safely?
if yes, what are these shortcomings?
once defined a protocol that guarantees my health and that of those who work in the company I have no problem using the machine, if instead without carenature it is not possible to work safely would open a totally different scenario.

 

[stevie]

my considerations were made without controversy.

 

[Stefano_GS]

Today I saw for the first time a laser marker in the new company where I work and has no complete carenature.
at the safety level the operator must wear the appropriate glasses and there is an area of respect to which any other operators should not approach with the machine in operation.
It is a machine for research and development, rarely used but I would say in accordance with the fact that the company is very attentive usually to these aspects.
I am not sure of the laser class, it is used to mark polyurethane but also metals.

I have to say, however, that is the first time I see this execution. in the past we used the marker 16 hours a day and it was complete and with suction and cooling system. for the replacement I have evaluated several proposals of different builders and all the proposals were lacking and with suction

 

[stevie]

Today I saw for the first time a laser marker in the new company where I work and has no complete carenature.
at the safety level the operator must wear the appropriate glasses and there is an area of respect to which any other operators should not approach with the machine in operation.
It is a machine for research and development, rarely used but I would say in accordance with the fact that the company is very attentive usually to these aspects.
I am not sure of the laser class, it is used to mark polyurethane but also metals.

I have to say, however, that is the first time I see this execution. in the past we used the marker 16 hours a day and it was complete and with suction and cooling system. for the replacement I have evaluated several proposals of different builders and all the proposals were lacking and with suction

As I imagined, this series of economic machines provide limits for use... operator with glasses, no one in proximity, vapours that are not aspired. . .
that then I wonder in terms of savings compared to the famine versions that percentage we have?
10-15% less? It's not worth it for me.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

Today I saw for the first time a laser marker in the new company where I work and has no complete carenature.
at the safety level the operator must wear the appropriate glasses and there is an area of respect to which any other operators should not approach with the machine in operation.
It is a machine for research and development, rarely used but I would say in accordance with the fact that the company is very attentive usually to these aspects.
I am not sure of the laser class, it is used to mark polyurethane but also metals.

I have to say, however, that is the first time I see this execution. in the past we used the marker 16 hours a day and it was complete and with suction and cooling system. for the replacement I have evaluated several proposals of different builders and all the proposals were lacking and with suction

If you can, would you check the laser class?
if you can even post the type of machine would be useful.
links, photos, catalogs or more.

 

[Meteor02]

If you can, would you check the laser class?
if you can even post the type of machine would be useful.
links, photos, catalogs or more.

I heard a customer who produces medical machinery, told me that the machinery as it is can be sold and deemed to be, but then it is the working environment that must be adapted to the current regulations. So it should be put in a special room, preclude the access to authorized personnel, indicate the responsible laser safety etc. https://www.certifico.com/normazion...iferimento-e-responsabile-sicurezza-laser-lso

 

[Giacomo Lepore]

I met a laser marker salesman yesterday. He showed us a thing without protection, without suction, without anything. 10w, class 4.
extremely famous brand in the industrial world, mainly as oem of optical devices.

I'm looking for the tag, nothing. But it gives me a certificate. I point out that certificate and marking are two different things. the certificate indicates the rules applied. marking indicates that all applicable res are computed.

Something interesting comes out. It tells me that they sell the only laser marker, which does not comply at all all the res. It is the end user who, depending on the type of material, size, etc. must build an adequate carenature, protection system and possibly suction system. it also tells me that in the case of metals the aspiration is not necessary, while in case of plastics yes.

Moreover this machine does a magic thing that in my deep ignorance I cannot understand and the commercial failed to explain to me. there is an infrared fiber laser generator (1024 nm). the radius, passing through a series of crystals becomes ultraviolet (325 nm). Now, the advantages of ultraviolet are obvious, from being able to mark transparent or reflective materials, to extremely shallow engraving (for example, an anodized die-casting can be marked without vanifying the very thin layer of anodization). only that I do not experience phenomena belonging to classical mechanics (except red shift) that can change the frequency of a coherent beam. Does anyone know anything about it?

 

[TECNOMODEL]

I met a laser marker salesman yesterday. He showed us a thing without protection, without suction, without anything. 10w, class 4.
extremely famous brand in the industrial world, mainly as oem of optical devices.

I'm looking for the tag, nothing. But it gives me a certificate. I point out that certificate and marking are two different things. the certificate indicates the rules applied. marking indicates that all applicable res are computed.
Something interesting comes out. It tells me that they sell the only laser marker, which does not comply at all all the res. It is the end user who, depending on the type of material, size, etc. must build an adequate carenature, protection system and possibly suction system. it also tells me that in the case of metals the aspiration is not necessary, while in case of plastics yes.Moreover this machine does a magic thing that in my deep ignorance I cannot understand and the commercial failed to explain to me. there is an infrared fiber laser generator (1024 nm). the radius, passing through a series of crystals becomes ultraviolet (325 nm). Now, the advantages of ultraviolet are obvious, from being able to mark transparent or reflective materials, to extremely shallow engraving (for example, an anodized die-casting can be marked without vanifying the very thin layer of anodization). only that I do not experience phenomena belonging to classical mechanics (except red shift) that can change the frequency of a coherent beam. Does anyone know anything about it?

therefore a company acquires a machinery and, depending on the work for which it uses it, must put it to norm?
This means having to hire a designer specializing in these things, and then must the declaration of conformity be requested?

 

[stevie]

therefore a company acquires a machinery and, depending on the work for which it uses it, must put it to norm?
This means having to hire a designer specializing in these things, and then must the declaration of conformity be requested?

then in this case it makes sense, are so-called oem products.
In essence, that laser "scarenate" or even the only laser generator, are sold to companies that integrate it within their machinery, working islands, etc.
Obviously it is up to the last company, which then sells the final product to the customer, provide all the protections of the case and declare the conformity of the final machine.

 

[Giacomo Lepore]

therefore a company acquires a machinery and, depending on the work for which it uses it, must put it to norm?
This means having to hire a designer specializing in these things, and then must the declaration of conformity be requested?

then in this case it makes sense, are so-called oem products.
In essence, that laser "scarenate" or even the only laser generator, are sold to companies that integrate it within their machinery, working islands, etc.
Obviously it is up to the last company, which then sells the final product to the customer, provide all the protections of the case and declare the conformity of the final machine.

the important thing is to be clear.
the guy was trying to sell us a finished item, only to targeted question answered this way.
to understand, for demonstration purpose it has supported the laser to an aluminum cube with a hand-made door. that stuff there is certainly not normal, just lean on the structure, the laser falls and can flip over while working.

 

[stevie]

the important thing is to be clear.
the guy was trying to sell us a finished item, only to targeted question answered this way.
to understand, for demonstration purpose it has supported the laser to an aluminum cube with a hand-made door. that stuff there is certainly not normal, just lean on the structure, the laser falls and can flip over while working.

Amazing. . .

 

[francescodue]

@ jacomo lepore.
It's not about lasers, but years ago I found a Chinese product that used a blue light led and, through a lens, moved the frequency into the UV-c.
in reality the uv-c were minimal (the detector used gave a very low emission, perhaps the "natural" ones), unfortunately there was not to remove the lens to make a comparison.

 

[welcome to the machine]

the "machine" made so is not normal. The seller I know him, he's called a dumb dime and the hand he passed under the ray was fake, asbestos. the original one cut her while testing her car.. .
said this, even the prescriptions on the fumes vacuum cleaner and the segregation of the working area should be indicated in the non-existent operating manual. even if the working area was controlled directly by the operator, a bicommand required to activate the radius.
If the user wants to assume responsibility for carrying out protections, he should go through all the process to certify what he did to adapt the machine to the standards, in which the original documentation of the equipment would be necessary, including risk analysis.
it is first to realize finely embossed by hand craftsmen of gardone val trompia.. .

 

[ale47p]

the "machine" made so is not normal. The seller I know him, he's called a dumb dime and the hand he passed under the ray was fake, asbestos. the original one cut her while testing her car.. .
said this, even the prescriptions on the fumes vacuum cleaner and the segregation of the working area should be indicated in the non-existent operating manual. even if the working area was controlled directly by the operator, a bicommand required to activate the radius.
If the user wants to assume responsibility for carrying out protections, he should go through all the process to certify what he did to adapt the machine to the standards, in which the original documentation of the equipment would be necessary, including risk analysis.
it is first to realize finely embossed by hand craftsmen of gardone val trompia.. .

I didn't know where "put your hand on fire" originated. Thank you.

 

[bip]

Unfortunately I come a little late in this debate, I hope I can still make my contribution.
I take care of laser cutting plants, and I have noticed that more than one oriental manufacturer provides the unprotected plant, simply delegating to the buyer the realization of adequate protections, and therefore the responsibility of safety, as if they were only components assemblers, but not manufacturers.
basically go to them, ask them to assemble components, build in management software on their design and deliver you a semi-finished.
you buy it, finish it and from the legal point of view you are the manufacturer. It seems quite evident to me that these behaviours are incorrect, but there are those who, in order to pay little money, take risks.
I have personally seen a manufacturer present a machine in a big trade fair in germany making demos with completely open machine, as it had not purchased a large enough stand to fit even the protections, with lasers much more powerful than that of a marker.

for those who say it is enough to wear protective glasses, it is absolutely not true, even the skin should be protected adequately, and although of limited power compared to a laser for cutting, even a marker could trigger a fire if the beam is reflected towards flammable surfaces.

Ultimately, if it is not classified as laser class machine 1, the machine is not safe. class 1 guarantees maximum safety, as any cutting or marking source is in class 4, to achieve class 1 need adequate sanding and safety interlocks.

the only cases of sources where part of the safety is delegated to the operator, are the medical ones, where it is impossible to completely interlock the source and ensure that no one can come in contact with the beam (it was used precisely on a person), but in the industrial field the machinery must be in class 1 or at the most in class 2 (for pointing devices).

 

[stevie]

Unfortunately I come a little late in this debate, I hope I can still make my contribution.
I take care of laser cutting plants, and I have noticed that more than one oriental manufacturer provides the unprotected plant, simply delegating to the buyer the realization of adequate protections, and therefore the responsibility of safety, as if they were only components assemblers, but not manufacturers.
basically go to them, ask them to assemble components, build in management software on their design and deliver you a semi-finished.
you buy it, finish it and from the legal point of view you are the manufacturer. It seems quite evident to me that these behaviours are incorrect, but there are those who, in order to pay little money, take risks.
I have personally seen a manufacturer present a machine in a big trade fair in germany making demos with completely open machine, as it had not purchased a large enough stand to fit even the protections, with lasers much more powerful than that of a marker.

for those who say it is enough to wear protective glasses, it is absolutely not true, even the skin should be protected adequately, and although of limited power compared to a laser for cutting, even a marker could trigger a fire if the beam is reflected towards flammable surfaces.

Ultimately, if it is not classified as laser class machine 1, the machine is not safe. class 1 guarantees maximum safety, as any cutting or marking source is in class 4, to achieve class 1 need adequate sanding and safety interlocks.

the only cases of sources where part of the safety is delegated to the operator, are the medical ones, where it is impossible to completely interlock the source and ensure that no one can come in contact with the beam (it was used precisely on a person), but in the industrial field the machinery must be in class 1 or at the most in class 2 (for pointing devices).

thanks to the contribution, it is exactly what I said, the risk is not only limited to damage to the eyes.