ste8
Guest
Thanks marco,
all the tips in the first paragraph of your answer have already known to me, the trees do not dissect and in the adjacent bodies the inclinations of the restraints are opposite. I didn't expect any keystrokes or tabs, but a forced mating.
I also realized that I recommend shortening the tree (true?) and moving it all to the right, but then I didn't understand what else I wanted to tell me!
Thank you very much
Hi.
steak
ste8
Guest
between the 2 semi crates I have inserted a membrane (it will be called??), flat seal, of the same form of the 2 contact cases (in the form of 8 to mean us), okay?
As for the bearings I chose to hold the axial thrust of the conical wheel on the lower shaft from the bearing on the other end and the load and duration calculations I was verified.
I can't understand your last consideration on the seeger rings. .
Thank you so much!
Bye and tomorrow!
steak
I've also inserted the thorns, that's enough 2, right? up and down?
linch
Guest
Dear exatem, I can't understand what you have taken this impression, I certainly sometimes have slightly "fumantine" reactions, but I assure you that there is no evil intention in my writings. Besides, it's a side of my character that I know and has been living with me forever.
I'm sorry, but what can I say if not that, friendship doesn't impose........ .
cacciatorino
Guest
which:
http://www.elli.it/pages/c1_pdiric.htmlfind a section of a reducer similar to your (it's the page for the request of spare parts).
Bye.
http://www.elli.it/pages/c1_pdiric.htmlfind a section of a reducer similar to your (it's the page for the request of spare parts).
Bye.
ste8
Guest
Good morning, everyone!
and thanks again for the precious advice of people much more experienced than me!
among the many doubts I have, I would like to ask you this:
1) on the trees, near the shoulders, is it better to make fittings or exhaust gorges? or some fittings and some gorges?
2) to prevent oil from spilling from inside the carcass, around the various bearings, in addition to the seals (incorporated hinges for the 2 ball bearings, low to left and high to right, lip seals for the others 2), do I have to put o-rings to avoid oil spills between case and lids/vitations?
Thanks again to everyone!
Hi.
and thanks again for the precious advice of people much more experienced than me!
among the many doubts I have, I would like to ask you this:
1) on the trees, near the shoulders, is it better to make fittings or exhaust gorges? or some fittings and some gorges?
2) to prevent oil from spilling from inside the carcass, around the various bearings, in addition to the seals (incorporated hinges for the 2 ball bearings, low to left and high to right, lip seals for the others 2), do I have to put o-rings to avoid oil spills between case and lids/vitations?
Thanks again to everyone!
Hi.
cacciatorino
Guest
if possible better fittings because they offer a lower cutting factor than a discharge throat. In fact the bearings are already widely connected (see a catalog of a manufacturer, for example skf: http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/products?maincatalogue=1〈=en&newlink=1 )
the exhaust gorges usually do if you have to rectify the trees, but in this case you need it? Maybe you can handle a good turning. But if the pro asks why you didn't put the exhaust gorges, you must have the answer ready! :smile:
Yes, the o-rings are mandatory.
Now I have not looked well at your design, but possibly, where the oil touches the tree, sometimes you put a tempered bushing, this for:
a) avoid an early wear of the untreated tree
b) if there is wear, it is better to use a bushing from a few euros than a much more expensive tree.
I'll train you the design of a car that's not a gearbox, but you need to see the oil talk and the tempered bushings. There's no o-ring here because the machine was lubricated with fat (in this case it rotates the outer ring but you care little).
Attachments
ste8
Guest
Thank you hunter!
I still attach the picture of the detail I meant. I thought I'd put the o-rings where I made the red marks, right?
Okay for tree fittings! :smile:
Attachments
cacciatorino
Guest
All right, I'd be in your seat for the o-ring in the thickness of the flange instead of the case.
Then, but it's my personal habit, these flanges usually make them with a cylindrical male aprte that enters the thickness of the case, and the o-ring I put it in this cylindrical part. so you get rid of any problems of flat surface planar, but it's just a detail (actually the flanges I make them so too because this way I use them to pin the bearing, of course only one of the two you have on the tree otherwise it becomes hyperstatic in axial sense --> overheating, wear, gripping!).
Bye.
sampom
Guest
Okay, more or less:
safe and convinced of conformation/dimensioning? which track you are following; "copy" an existing one or do you according to "general" indications?
is said of the empty space inside the box resulting in unnecessary length of the trees between the supports. then the box seems excessively "sick" (or too tight bearings.. apart from the oscillating one and I don't understand why of that type and only him) especially on the right side (you will tell me that there is the exit with the "force take", but it finds a compromise). I say "to the eye" not knowing all the data for sizing. . I would make it thinner and with the most "floated" bearings inside. in this regard you have to consider the ease of lambirli from the oil, the more they are flush with the inner wall the better.
if it must be "open" along the vertical plane I would do it however turned 90°, with the junction line passing by the axes, cutting half the bearing seats (like the section you did in practice).
The low-out shaft has that conical wheel.. if it is also helical (but not only) you will have axial reaction towards the inside of the reducer and the opposite bearing will not be the simple ball bearing you put but it will take a brace.
about the estates. .
I would not put or under lids but simple "paper" seals. the builders put a veil of dough for seals (like the "red", but for its characteristics in this case it does not serve, there are many types).
the lids would do them with a "labber" that enters centering in the bearing seat (please drown them more as mentioned above) making joke against the same (in this case you will have to predict/size the thickness of the seals if you use those of paper and adjust with axial tolerances). so "flats" as you made them are not the maximum.
lip oil in the lids must have a joke, you cannot keep the same thickness as you did. mount them from the inside of the cover so that they can not be expelled outward.
and yes, the contact surfaces on the shaft should be rectified (as well as, as a rule, those of the bearings) but it is true that the turning today from excellent finishes. . material chosen for the trees? and size?
I don't think of anything else.
Go ahead and see.
greetings
Marco:smile:
linch
Guest
ok on the suggestions but attention to the axial load of the bearings in general, but especially to those mounted on the axis of the conical couple.
They are combined, therefore they also partially hold axial loads and are verified, but they do not seem to me the maximum for that application.
I would suggest axial roller bearing mounted with a slight preload.
Finally, the mounting of the toothed wheels will be cast? if you with what method? what interference to apply? which method to use for a subsequent replacement?
In this regard I would suggest the skf oil injection staining system, it works wonder.
The operation does not provide any damage to the sewing office (which is fundamental), or to the disassembled element.
ste8
Guest
1) with regard to the sizing of the tree I am quite convinced, we have been "lively advised" to make it of a length of about 40/50 cm. I also know the empty space, I will ask the professor Tuesday!
As far as the diameter is concerned, I have considered the fatigue dimensionalization with carving effects.
2) box too thick: true...but how can I make it less thick, if already the space filled with oil is excessive? do you want to decrease the thickness?
3) dividing the case into two semicasses along the axes was my proposal made to the professor, just before starting the design of the two semicasse...he rejected it!
4) I would not seem presumptuous, but also for what concerns the bearing I am quite convinced of my choice. the conical wheel is to right teeth, and still exchanges an axial force, which is precisely balanced by the ball bearing on the left. At least, from the calculations made on the duration with skf bearings is so!
5) kept: in this case unfortunately it is not clear to me what you want to say, I put some o-rings on a hunter's suggestion inside the lids, before reading your message.
The second part is not clear to me.
6) Should lip seals have a line out? and how can they be replaced? will everything be dismantled? on the manual skf there are drawings without external jokes if I am not mistaken, but here I am totally ignorant in the matter, no one has ever explained to me the various types of seals!
7) the chosen material is a c40 steel with yielding voltage=720 mpa and fatigue limit voltage=400 mpa. the shaft below has section at the most solicited point (double crown clamp of rollers) of 85 mm and shouldering 99 mm. the tree above is smaller with more stressed section of 60mm and 72 mm shouldering.
ste8
Guest
As regards the bearings, as I said to sampon, I would not seem presumptuous, but from the calculations carried out also with the help of the skf portal I am being tested for the duration.
the dentate wheels are forced on the respective trees with a h7-x7 coupling (can go well? )
Thank you for the answer!
Hi.
steak
sampom
Guest
That would be the same thing that said to you,
... and I think it refers to something like this:
and the or are also good (very well :biggrin
. it was to save something that I took them away:greetings
Mar
linch
Guest
If, in addition to tolerances, you also indicate the coupling diameters, you can try to give you an answer.
Hi.
meccanicamg
Guest
tolerance could go well, but check according to the interference obtained, the actual transferable couple and feasibility with heating for the expansion of the hub. Also check compression both the hub and the shaft caused by the tightening of the first on the second after cooling. verify that the temperatures reached do not bring back the materials and therefore lose the mechanical characteristics.
sampom
Guest
indicated them in the post just above what you linked. .
Of course, if you don't read everything for benign then don't complain if "pro." you're begging:tongue::biggrin:
greetings
Marco:smile:
linch
Guest
I see that on the goodness of tolerances has already responded mechanicalmg, so I avoid overlapping.
I would also advise you to check with accuracy the maximum interference provided by the applied tolerances, and according to this define the heating temperature (the thermal expansion of the toothed wheel seat) for a proper hot calettamento.
I also attach a detailed description of the skf ladder system that you will have to predict in the case of future replacements of toothed wheels.
Of course, it is necessary to make appropriate mechanical processing on the hub, because such a system can be applied, (plant of oil expansion, linking pipeline, etc.). Probably find everything on their site, otherwise ask as well.
Skf method of oil injection
for easy, fast and effortless disassembly
when using the skf method of oil injection, contact surfaces are separated by a thin high-pressure injected oil film, which virtually eliminates friction between them. the method is versatile and can be used to disassemble the bearings or other components from conical or cylindrical locations. when you have to disassemble the bearings from cylindrical locations the injected oil can reduce the extraction force even by 90%.
then when you use an extractor to remove a bearing from its location the required physical effort is very reduced. with the method of oil injection to disassemble the bearings from a conical seat, the interference is completely canceled by the injected oil. the bearing is then expelled from the seat, making it unnecessary to use an extractor. In this case, however, it is necessary to provide an appropriate stop to control the expulsion of the bearing.
the method adopted in many bearing applications, can be chosen for other details, such as:
Joint joints
Wheels dense
railway wheels
propellers
elbow trees
cylindrical trees
the principle
if you inject oil of a certain viscosity between two surfaces coupled with each other with interference, these are to be kept separate from a thin film and the effort necessary to detach them is reduced
I would also advise you to check with accuracy the maximum interference provided by the applied tolerances, and according to this define the heating temperature (the thermal expansion of the toothed wheel seat) for a proper hot calettamento.
I also attach a detailed description of the skf ladder system that you will have to predict in the case of future replacements of toothed wheels.
Of course, it is necessary to make appropriate mechanical processing on the hub, because such a system can be applied, (plant of oil expansion, linking pipeline, etc.). Probably find everything on their site, otherwise ask as well.
Skf method of oil injection
for easy, fast and effortless disassembly
when using the skf method of oil injection, contact surfaces are separated by a thin high-pressure injected oil film, which virtually eliminates friction between them. the method is versatile and can be used to disassemble the bearings or other components from conical or cylindrical locations. when you have to disassemble the bearings from cylindrical locations the injected oil can reduce the extraction force even by 90%.
then when you use an extractor to remove a bearing from its location the required physical effort is very reduced. with the method of oil injection to disassemble the bearings from a conical seat, the interference is completely canceled by the injected oil. the bearing is then expelled from the seat, making it unnecessary to use an extractor. In this case, however, it is necessary to provide an appropriate stop to control the expulsion of the bearing.
the method adopted in many bearing applications, can be chosen for other details, such as:
Joint joints
Wheels dense
railway wheels
propellers
elbow trees
cylindrical trees
the principle
if you inject oil of a certain viscosity between two surfaces coupled with each other with interference, these are to be kept separate from a thin film and the effort necessary to detach them is reduced
meccanicamg
Guest
Hello, ste8,
I made you a sketch for some additions or changes. If you want to reengineer the gearbox and always leave long trees bringing everything to a smaller thickness you can do it.
- decrease thickness
- create glasses to accommodate the bearing+tenuta+coperchio or complete hub easily interchangeable
- create triangular ribs where the structure is weak (the ribbed resists more than one smooth especially in bending along the thin wall)
I also remind you that if the case is made by merging in the ground or other merging processes, you will have some corners of the sform. keep in mind the surfaces to work later (as indicated) and above all the parallel relations between the planes and between the axes, then the positioning of the bearing seats and reference thorns/mounting.
I attach pdf of the sketch.
I made you a sketch for some additions or changes. If you want to reengineer the gearbox and always leave long trees bringing everything to a smaller thickness you can do it.
- decrease thickness
- create glasses to accommodate the bearing+tenuta+coperchio or complete hub easily interchangeable
- create triangular ribs where the structure is weak (the ribbed resists more than one smooth especially in bending along the thin wall)
I also remind you that if the case is made by merging in the ground or other merging processes, you will have some corners of the sform. keep in mind the surfaces to work later (as indicated) and above all the parallel relations between the planes and between the axes, then the positioning of the bearing seats and reference thorns/mounting.
I attach pdf of the sketch.
linch
Guest
But how can you use this tone with someone you don't know?
I avoid replicating, because the answer would be very colorful, but above all not to go down to your level.