but the honor?

[numero1]

Everything can be, but I think we're overestimating the political intelligence of our leaders.

never give away what is more easily explained by stupidity.

I generally agree with this statement, but I wonder whether it is also valid in this case.
in fact probably the interpretation of lightning at the long will be corrected, we will see.

I also wonder if now that the soldiers have been officially investigated by the Italian prosecutor, is it possible to do what has been done?
Shouldn't the military and/or civil magistrate be opposed?

greetings

 

[Cristallo]

Grandpa, that "strack" you have behind your back is not there to shadow. It is the blood of the Italians who died for it and that you use to infagot the gift packages for four speculators and a German recombination with the ill-hegemonian hands of grandfather sweet.
Maybe he never wondered why the greeting was due first to her only after the president of the republic.
respect and honor.

I repeat these words and confirm them. They contain, with justifiable cause, all anger and contempt for that leader of the armed forces (volubly all in tiny) that is not able to be respected.

I add:
... the two young men were there because they sent them, not to enjoy the peaceful sun.
I don't give a snitch of luxoptics, piaggio and fiat... To sell two hi to three Indians, do I have to make a figure of world shit? but go to the ciaps!

 

[Exatem]

I generally agree with this statement, but I wonder whether it is also valid in this case.
in fact probably the interpretation of lightning at the long will be corrected, we will see.

I also wonder if now that the soldiers have been officially investigated by the Italian prosecutor, is it possible to do what has been done?
Shouldn't the military and/or civil magistrate be opposed?

greetings

they were already investigated for over a year, i.e. since the fact happened. logically it was not possible to question them until now.

 

[Exatem]

instead I had interpreted it as a craxian maneuver to join the profit to the literal.
first (natal) I'll get them back india, so start trusting you, and pull out the real problem of helicopters. then I keep them in Italy to force you to put black on white what you haven't wanted to do until now. When I feel calm that the two Italians will be protected from these agreements (finally stipulated), I will return them india so you put in place the paperwork, since it is clear that by now the agreements have been taken, you only have to follow the formalism of the official way.

all, even with the risk of losing the face.

Maybe I'm myopic. Yeah, I'm probably myopic.

this would have been a typical "voltagabbana" of Italian politician. a "shattered" by old politician consumed.
but these are amateurs of politics, they are "technicians" lent to the political world that have evidenced all their unpreparedness and pressapocaggine.
the figure of shit is so great that perhaps equals 8 September 43 and the unmissable escape of the king and all his (in)worthy followed.

All I'm sick, only the two guys who said: "We are military, so we obey."

 

[Fulvio Romano]

I agree with old and exatem, but we do not forget that the Second World War we have "winned" it too.

Sometimes I think I'm too proud, but I wouldn't have the courage to show me more in public.

The two maros are the only coherents in the whole matter.

 

[Exatem]

behind what appears to be the suicide of the Italian industry (alva di taranto, finmeccanica), is hidden the interest of making disappear, or at least resize, a dangerous competitor capable of winning international competitions at the expense of much stronger American, Russian and European groups.
It is elementary that behind the troubles that involved large national groups, someone has benefited.
countries that are not morally better than us and that when it comes to protecting national interests, they enjoy the support of their respective governments.
accusations of corruption on the story of helicopters india is tragicomic.
Only in the last 10 years, the French industries have been protagonists of acts of corruption for the sale of warships to taiwan and submarines to Pakistan, the British have tried in a thousand ways to place planes to Saudi Arabia and to African countries. Let us remember the lockheed scandal that overwhelmed European and Japanese political leaders, of the bofors that paid bribes for the supply of cannons to India...

Let's compare:

- bae systems, an English company in the aerospace and defence sector, on the contrary, the second largest defence firm in the world and the largest in Europe, has been subject to harsh criticism, both in general for arms sales activities, and in particular for the results of immoral practices and corruption, including the affair of the contract to yamamah with Saudi Arabia, which allowed it gains for 43 billion years. mark thatcher the son of the then prime minister margaret who signed the agreement, but politics intervened to protect national interests and tony blair blocked investigations on bae systems.

- Finmeccanica, a public company controlled by the Ministry of the Treasury, was accused of paying bribes to India for the sale of 12 helicopters.
What did Italian politics do?
nothing and therefore only damage.
It does not, for example, suspend the ad from the top of the company (considering also that many of the investigations on corruption ended with archives and assumptions) thus avoiding, or containing, the repercussions on the stock in stock. the absence, the latitude of the state, was of a fragorous silence.

This is certainly a coincidence but the threat of the india to insert finmeccanica in the “black list” of unwelcome companies and therefore excluded from supply competitions, coincides accidentally with the visit to new hollande delhi for the signing of the sale of nuclear reactors, rafale hunting and... helicopters.

perhaps not everyone knows but Italy is under attack by powerful foreign companies. siemens wants anald energy, the French aim more to the arms industry and therefore to oto melara, wass, selex and mbda. English are interested in taking control of agusta westland. Americans are doing everything to put in trouble alenia aermacchi by canceling contracts for planes c-27 spartan and g-222.
the moment to come shopping in Italy must be particularly favorable given the economic crisis and the collapse of stocks. sin that of this the only ones not to realize it are the Italians.

 

[Er Presidente]

behind what appears to be the suicide of the Italian industry (alva di taranto, finmeccanica), is hidden the interest of making disappear, or at least resize, a dangerous competitor capable of winning international competitions at the expense of much stronger American, Russian and European groups.
It is elementary that behind the troubles that involved large national groups, someone has benefited.
countries that are not morally better than us and that when it comes to protecting national interests, they enjoy the support of their respective governments.
accusations of corruption on the story of helicopters india is tragicomic.
Only in the last 10 years, the French industries have been protagonists of acts of corruption for the sale of warships to taiwan and submarines to Pakistan, the British have tried in a thousand ways to place planes to Saudi Arabia and to African countries. Let us remember the lockheed scandal that overwhelmed European and Japanese political leaders, of the bofors that paid bribes for the supply of cannons to India...

Let's compare:

- bae systems, an English company in the aerospace and defence sector, on the contrary, the second largest defence firm in the world and the largest in Europe, has been subject to harsh criticism, both in general for arms sales activities, and in particular for the results of immoral practices and corruption, including the affair of the contract to yamamah with Saudi Arabia, which allowed it gains for 43 billion years. mark thatcher the son of the then prime minister margaret who signed the agreement, but politics intervened to protect national interests and tony blair blocked investigations on bae systems.

- Finmeccanica, a public company controlled by the Ministry of the Treasury, was accused of paying bribes to India for the sale of 12 helicopters.
What did Italian politics do?
nothing and therefore only damage.
It does not, for example, suspend the ad from the top of the company (considering also that many of the investigations on corruption ended with archives and assumptions) thus avoiding, or containing, the repercussions on the stock in stock. the absence, the latitude of the state, was of a fragorous silence.

This is certainly a coincidence but the threat of the india to insert finmeccanica in the “black list” of unwelcome companies and therefore excluded from supply competitions, coincides accidentally with the visit to new hollande delhi for the signing of the sale of nuclear reactors, rafale hunting and... helicopters.

perhaps not everyone knows but Italy is under attack by powerful foreign companies. siemens wants anald energy, the French aim more to the arms industry and therefore to oto melara, wass, selex and mbda. English are interested in taking control of agusta westland. Americans are doing everything to put in trouble alenia aermacchi by canceling contracts for planes c-27 spartan and g-222.
the moment to come shopping in Italy must be particularly favorable given the economic crisis and the collapse of stocks. sin that of this the only ones not to realize it are the Italians.

in times of crisis and economic war (because we are at war even if we have not yet noticed) we understand how certain very "soviet" rules of control on strategic companies (national interest) were and are still valid.

 

[numero1]

they were already investigated for over a year, i.e. since the fact happened. logically it was not possible to question them until now.

......... since it seems a story focused (mostly) on legal cavities, it was not possible that an Italian magistrate found some valid motivation; This would have allowed the government to have a justification to do what it did.
In addition, the Indian government seems to have found several of these guillotines........ in order to do what he did, since he probably realized almost immediately that he had done a.......ta and now he doesn't know + how to get out of it.
Hi.

 

[numero1]

this would have been a typical "voltagabbana" of Italian politician. a "shattered" by old politician consumed.
but these are amateurs of politics, they are "technicians" lent to the political world that have evidenced all their unpreparedness and pressapocaggine.
the figure of shit is so great that perhaps equals 8 September 43 and the unmissable escape of the king and all his (in)worthy followed.

All I'm sick, only the two guys who said: "We are military, so we obey."

We're not joking. On September eight, it remains unparalleled, it is out of the table.
For the rest, I'd say you're right. :
Hi.

 

[numero1]

perhaps not everyone knows but Italy is under attack by powerful foreign companies. siemens wants ansaldo energy

now also the samsung....... It seems.
in general I am against these operations, but in some cases it can also be a good............ the example bears mentioned by you fits perfectly.
Hi.

 

[numero1]

in times of crisis and economic war (because we are at war even if we have not yet noticed) we understand how certain very "soviet" rules of control on strategic companies (national interest) were and are still valid.

quoton......... :finger:

 

[Exatem]

the value of the spreadPerhaps someone was disappointed that the decision not to return the two riflemen, the india would silently and passively accept the position.
Perhaps someone believed that the india would resign and would tacitly accept our stance.
perhaps someone thought that they would applaud us for the courage and Italianity found.
Maybe...

Surely, not perhaps, great must have been the disappointment/surprise to the unexpected words of the "Italian" sonia ghandi that lapidary declared "we will take them at all costs, do not underestimate the india".
so the late performance of “attributes” vanished at the first threats and the disappointment for the failure to resign new delhi in front of such a show of strength, so much determination, turned into a cocent, shocking, reality.

the quirinal, owner of the supreme command of the armed forces, gave priority to the “friendly solution” rather than to the protection of two of his men.
quirinale who accepted the blackmail (acknowledgment that includes sanctions also in our criminal code since those who suffer a blackmail are obliged and denounce facts and people), quirinale who betrayed the constitution by extraditing Italian citizens in a country that contemplates the death penalty (and don't tell us about written assurances that until now have not been exhibited but, regularly denied by india).
in the face of this desolate and destructive framework of national identity, according to some other people, we had only to respect the word given.
but the word given to whom?
Let us begin to ask ourselves, once we decide not to cause the military to fall india, what we should have reprimanded and wait, trying to understand the facts.

the facts are that for over a year India has teased us with unworthy abuses and abuses of a nation that is considered civil and democratic.
the facts say that the india does not respect the conventions of international law, does not respect the immunities of which the military sent on mission abroad (even its co-operates to the missions on the wave, would do well to remember it), does not respect the immunity of which an ambassador enjoys (one of the oldest norms among those that regulate the relations between nations, valid also in case of war), does not respect the rules unclos, bare enheritics, not attracts,
In the face of all this we have not beaten, we have not returned for example the move to seize Indian diplomats in Italy.
who is the responsibility of this colossal figure?

I have already said, of a lobotomized ruler, hostage to his own incompetence and, under check of the industrial lobbies who fear to see vanishes, contracts not always clear and transparent.
it was about choosing between pride and interest.
It's useless to say what he prevailed.
in previous posts I had applauded the decision to make ours remain in Italy even if I had emphasized that perhaps you could choose another way.
I never would have imagined a turn that fast.

the credibility of a country, of a whole people, is also based on how the same goes before the world. It is not only a question of public debt or spread, but also and above all of the seriousness that the nation has in international relations.
but who can have an interest in doing business with a people of quaquaraquà that in front of those who make the voice big trash, vacilla, balbetta and is promptly positioned to tears?
and what are our 75 well-paid European parliamentarians doing to bruxelles? where were they when the European Union said that “treatment of bilateral question”? What are we, with all respect, Pakistan? Are we not a European member, indeed, one of the founding states of Europe?

We extend the shooting a bit... even obama said that “it is not our business but a question between Italy and India”. It should be remembered to him that on September 11 it was not really an Italian affair but rather a matter between the use and terrorists, but we went, and we are still now, in Iraq and Afghanistan. that solidarity is only an empty and meaningless word?
do you know how many missions that see us engaged abroad?
afghanistan, eau, bahrein, qatar, tampa, iraq, Balkans, Mediterranean Sea, Indian Ocean, Uganda, somaly, Bosnian, Georgian, rafah, niger, mali, Libyan, india, pakistan, israele, darfur, marocco, cipro, Sudan, egitto, pakistan, Albanian. some under egida of the onu, other European, born, bilateral. over 5,500 Italian soldiers engaged.

We try to withdraw our ships from the Horn of Africa and the Indian Ocean and leave international traffic to the mercy of the pirates, let the troops fall back from Afghanistan, the Iraqi, the Libyan, the Kosovo, from all the missions of peace in which we are called and involved and let the pseudo international solidarity blow.

Sorry about the rash but I wrote hundreds of pages on the forum trying to highlight how good we have in our past and never imagined such a disgust.

 

[Oldwarper]

is one of the last acts that is desperately doing the German proconsul in Italy with the support of the viceroy of the Bourbons to protect even more the German hegemony in Europe. It destroys the glow of international credibility that we had regained after the "spread" scandal, in reality we had not lost anything, neither credibility nor solvency, but "someone" to sound of btp sells (a certain db, which has lightened by 90% its exposure in one day, with the media support of the rating agencies all over the world). (note: strange that rating agencies, which misjudged cases of ratings such as cirio, parmalat and lehman-brothers, keep their credibility undefeated...).

then the strange timing of the bribes for supplies of weapons to the india, while similar foreign cases are prompted by the competent governments.

the Eurogermania is destroying its main competitor (Italy) with the complicity of the franc (who thinks it is also advantageous, without knowing that it is the next target) and the indifference of the other states (the same that has dealt with the maro'). what is "useful" buys it (lamborghini, ducati...and ferrari?) and the rest cuts the bridges (credit) or destroys it.

We're at war, but our people have already lost it. they betrayed us without even showing us who the enemy was.

 

[numero1]

I would almost agree with you old......... .
I have a little different opinions.
Hi.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

I would almost agree with you old......... .
I have a little different opinions.
Hi.

Me too.
white and black are colors that should be used infrequently (if then colors can be called).

 

[Oldwarper]

My analysis is simple, very simple, restricted in a few lines of a message.

we say that I "digitalized" a political situation with a 1-bit a/d converter... Of course the color resolution and the dynamics of the range are rather narrow...:wink:

 

[Fulvio Romano]

Well, with a bit, it's hard to describe anything but white and black... :biggrin:

 

[Exatem]

today's news that agustawestland, a Finmeccanica group, was selected by the company bristow group inc for the supply of aw189 helicopters intended for search and rescue missions (sar: search and rescue) in the united kingdom. the commission, of the value of approximately 275 million euros, previews the supply of 11 aw189 in version will be.

What will become French and German now?

 

[Exatem]

they went to play and were played...“the question has been resolved without many problems thanks to the strong attitude taken by the supreme court and its energetic intervention” i.e. the hard line has folded Italy.
Another slap besieged us by the Indian defense minister that, having shown his muscles towards our ambassador, he reached the easy goal since Italy has “feeled without problems”.
and the Indian people now look at us with a mixture of suspicion and derision while the local press speaks of “small Italian” that dared to challenge the Indian giant and for this it came out with broken bones.
According to the newspaper “the asian age” we are below the sri lanka that at least eight years ago, despite the killing of 8 fishermen, it did not bend, while “the guardian” accuses the Indian government of being too soft against a country that uses “perfidy and deception”.
Thus the people divided into a thousand religious and political rivulets, it turns out to be united and raises the voice against a “oppressor” country that discriminates workers by race and nationality by applying different wages between Indians and Italians.

in Italy instead a professor was called to save the nation from bankruptcy and to return the presumed lost international credibility. a foreign minister already ambassador to America. a government of technical swearers, traitors, turnaround (there are those who said that never and then never would be candidate) that brought us back to the messed up, confused and without spine.

Today the two ministers presented themselves in the Chamber.
According to a journalistic reconstruction, one of the major architects of the inversion to u was the minister of economic development that at the meeting of 21 March, would sponsor the return india of the sea to avoid economic repercussions. Minister whose diplomatic advisor was the ambassador in India.
That is why this minister goes to add to the triad responsible for the figure. .

on March 15, four days after the announcement that the soldiers would not return, the president convened the ministers involved inviting them to seek a "friendly solution". so someone took advantage of it to put back a undersecretary now “made out” from the important games. In this way, the undersecretary, also excavating the minister, negotiates with the Indians trying to obtain an honorable surrender, that is, the farce we are talking about.
on 21 eve of the expiry of the permit, when a couple of ministers launch to attack while at nothing are worth the attempts to oppose the direct interested parties (who at this point should have resigned).
also the watcher takes advantage of the decision of return in India while with a message to nipples, journalist of channel 5, latorre says: "We don't need to know who the fault was because it doesn't lead us to anything - the rifleman explains. what we ask you now is not division, but join forces and solve this story (before he wrote tragedy and then corrected it). as the riflemen all say, no one back. we are Italian to prove it".
already, unfortunately we have shown it.

 

[Oldwarper]

There is enough to open not one but 10 investigations of the ordinary and military judiciary, as well as some inquiries born and honored for violations of international treaties.
for the president I repeat the high treason as commander of the ff.aa. and violation of the constitutional charter as head of state.

the undersecretary should be put in tso to avoid doing other damages, to itself, to the government and to the Italian people.

a domandina.. .
Surely it is not applicable to the case, but if a command jeopardizes the physical integrity of its subordinates with incorrect orders one of its subordinate officers has the duty to remove the superior from the command... but that you can't do it with a president without triggering a goal? ?